They monitor e-mails, chat room, and discussion boards like this as well. Not that they can possibly keep up with every communication made in every conceivable form, so they monitor key words and phrases. Just send a few key words all together, like "White House", "bomb", "President Bush", "assasinate", etc. and sit back and see how long it takes them to come and bfsagdfyulbvalyfgablguyt ...

Nostatic, last I heard they were simply datamining.

Are you confusing the NSA Eavesdropping program which is with calls outside of the US with the datamining of calling patterns? No listening in is done on these calls according to the White House.

Or are you pre-supposing that the other shoe hasn't yet dropped and that the NSA is secretly listening to all those domestic calls too??

exactly...like if they get a warrant. Sorta like getting domestic call lists from phone providers...seems you used to have to go to court to get those instead of just getting them without any probable cause.

Rick, I'm not confusing the two. The article doesn't state that they are eavesdropping, but even obtaining the call lists from providers is rather chilling to me. I just asked the question to see how willing people are to have their own affairs monitored by the gov. Where does the slippery slope end?

Jeff, chat rooms and discussion boards are public communication. I don't see an issue with monitoring those as I don't have an expectation of privacy. Don't phone calls fall under a different rubric? Isn't there an expectation of privacy for a phone call? Seems that when the argument about emails was fast a furious a few years back, phone calls were the gold standard for private communication.

Pres Bush said they weren't datamining. He is a liar exactly to the same extent as Clinton with his 'no sex' comment. And the neocons just sit there and support this activity now. What a bunch of hypocrites.

God save us all from those willing to give up liberties and freedoms for security.

Honestly, I don't see what the big deal is here.

There is another big bureaucracy which knows who you call and when: THE PHONE COMPANY.

Which massive bureaucracy knows my calling patterns makes no difference to me. The telemarketers still keep calling, regardless.

I haven't made up my mind on this issue yet, Steve, but I think talking about the issue honestly is the first step. The media seems to want to put the NSA Eavesdropping program and this program into one box which I don't think is right. I saw on the news last night where they played a clip of Bush saying that they weren't eavesdropping on domestic calls followed by a clip from yesterday talking about domestic number datamining. They insinuated that Bush was lying the whole time when in fact they are two separate programs and, so far, no evidence of eavesdropping on purely domestic calls without a warrant has been found.

I don't like the idea of the gubmint datamining who I call, but I also don't like the idea of google keeping records of my searches, the IRS knowing what I spent my money on and how much money I made in various endeavors, the US Census Bureau knowing how many people live in my house, what the race of my kids is and how many cars I own. I don't like the internet keeping cookies on websites that I visit and using that data to send annoying pop-ups to my screen. I don't like credit card companies knowing my personal information and spending habits and selling that data to advertisers.

In short, there's a lot of my personal information that is datamined every day and yet I don't see Nancy Pelosi out there railing against those things. If it weren't so transparently political, I might get riled up about this...

You have to draw lines somewhere. Google has a lot of data, but as for my searches...again, I don't consider anything done on the Internet to be "private." I expect that the credit agencies will keep my information private, as I expect the phone company to do as well. I went on the national no-call list and no longer get any telemarketers. So some bits of the system work. As for the census, that gives data to enable the government to provide public services. Now you could argue that the gov is providing "security" as a service by gathering all of the phone call data, but to me that is over the line. Census data is static. The call data is not.

I don't see this as a political issue. Well, except for the fact that the dems latch on for the wrong reasons (because they want to make a stink) and the repubs turn a blind eye for the wrong reason (they want to support the pres no matter what).

seems folks are upset that someone may listen, not to many politicos upset about the 10 million illegals making calls to Mexico and further south.It's like a magic show..last week it was illegals and amnesty..look over here Kennedy is drunk/maybe..look here.. phone logs...meantime..sneakies across the border,Iran has a bomb..CIA run by a soldier ? and so it goes on, and on, and on, and will someone please bring me a beer..this pure entertaiment folks
Rika

How can you not see it as a political issue?

Is it merely coincidence that this leak occurred the day that Bush's nomination for CIA Director is making the rounds at Congress? You know, the former director of the NSA?

at its core it is not a political issue. Or it shouldn't be. But as I said, unfortunately it is.

Ok, I agree with that statement, the evaluation of what our government should and should not do and what info they should and should not collect is not a political one, it is an American one.

Unfortunately every issue that comes up gets spun into mudslinging ammo in that cesspool of corruption we call our government.

At the core it is about right and wrong and this is wrong.

So who's Paris Hilton calling for phone sex these days?

Oh, and will some someone please send Schubert a Eyemasters coupon..take the glasses of, or put them on..you don't look smart, and when you speak.. pure horsesh@t .
Rika

not crazy about the other one's either. But do we just sit here with our thumbs up our arses and let them do whatever they want?

Maybe time for some civil disobedience (or not so civil). What do you think the fine is for spraypainting the lenses of intersection cameras?

Not concerned with constitutionally-granted privacy?
Fine, give copies of your house keys to the local police, fire department, phone company, gas company, etc..... with the condition that they can look all they want but don't touch.

-Mabye your taking with your lawyer about confidential issues.
-Mabye your discussing buisness strategies that are competitive with Haliburton or Shell Oil.
-Mabye your talking to your family about medical issues.
-Mabye you information might be sold to private companies.

The only one holding the rope around my nuts should be me.

The list of boboos is long, and getting longer. So lets just wait and see what rises up next week, and then this 'outrage ' will take the backseat with the rest of the boboos on the bus. Thinking birdflu in Wyoming could be hot, or American Idol.
Rika

Actually, I don't think the word "Privacy" is mentioned once in the Constitution.

But that is just an aside. Whether the Gov't knows what your doing, or Verizon knows....somebody still knows and it isn't "Private" anymore.

True.

Maybe the guy you're talking with is later identified as an unlicensed gun dealer with some fringe political views. You think you won't get a knock on your door?

And once again, people who don't exercise their brain cells feel it's perfectly fine for the Bush administration to have their phone call, retail and library records. They never stop to think who might be in power next.

I've been passively watching this thread and I am AMAZED at how easily we accept government intrusion into our lives.

At some point, our liberty is threatened more by our own government than by any attack Al Quaida could ever deliver.

We have embraced illegal wiretaps, justified gestapo tactics at Ruby Ridge and Waco, endured the Alternative Minimum Tax, we pay our speeding tickets dutifully when no public danger was at issue, our states have surrendered the right to decide issues relating to medical marijuana, end of life issues and abortion. The IRS tramples citizens rights with no due process and no oversight.

The liberty and freedom that is our birthright have been eroded and degraded by both parties, always for the "greater good".

If you trust ANY government with the most intimate details of your life you are no student of history or the mechanics of power. The lessons you learn will be harsh and lasting.

If an individual collected and shared all the information that companies and government do, it would be called stalking.

Feel free to post your entire profile here, then- from your financial fraud, sexual deviencies and std distribution, medical embarassments, interpersonal lies and manipulations, using your vehicle as a weapon against pedestrians, etc...The whole dirty laundry. Go ahead. Don't make that decision for another though.


I stopped posting for a while here on PP because very soon after I called your president a cokehead deserter, my hard drive started sounding like a 1/2in impact.....like the read/write limits had been changed. Firefox, Zonealarm, scripting off, 28k modem

It could just be coinsidence, though, my PC is a piecer. I don't think bushies would actually use cheap, contrite attacks on vocal critics of their illegal policies, do you?

Cue the X Files music...

:rolleyes:

Someone has delusions of grandeur...

And that friends is your average Democrat voter:)

Sweet cubicle (no space-dust sail though).
The X-file are all about acceptance of outer space aliens, which is contrary to the flat-earth FACT. Right???

Back in 1975, people would laugh you out the door if you claimed GM would make it mandatory to have your vehicle satelite-tracked, put a microphone inside your car, and have your doors remotely unlockable.
Starting 2006 this mandatory option is called "On-star".

And oh yeah, it's as easy as a push on the "source code" button- if you have access(and purposefully chose to use) that button that is. It's rummored the Win/IE trial was about giving 'gubment a universal backdoor to everyones personal database.
Heck! Windows is so good and secure, let's run our voting machines and defense conputers off it!!!


A year later later, after reinstalling windows on the same 8+y.o. slowRPM HD, my pc still works, but much slower.
But still much faster than those few weeks.

Amen Brother

and Mul hasn't called you treasonous yet? He must be out for coffee...

We're from the government. We're here to help. We brought plenty of bubble wrap. Sign here. Initial here. Sign here. Thumb print here. Retinal scan. Ok, great. Oh, and you should call your mother more often, and your girlfriend less often. Did you know she's seeing your best buddy? And that he has HSV2? And you don't want to know who else he's calling. Or maybe you do...got a credit card number?

Remember when you ran away
And I got on my knees and begged you
Not to go because I´d go beserk?
WELL,

You left me anyhow and
Then the days got worse and worse
And now you see I´ve gone completely
out of my mind

AND


(chorus 1)
They´re coming to take me away,
Haha, they´re coming to take me away,
Ho ho, hee hee, ha ha,
To the funny farm
Where Life is Beautiful all the time
And I´ll be happy to see
Those Nice Young Men
In their Clean White Coats
And they´re coming to take me AWAY,
HA HAAAA

You thought it was a joke,
and so you LAUGHED, YOU LAUGHT
When I had said that losing you
Would make me flip my lid,

RIGHT?

You know you laught.
I HEARD you laugh, you laughed
And laughed and laughed
And then you left,
And now you see I´m Utterly Mad

AND

(chorus 2)
They´re coming to take me away,
Haha, they´re coming to take me away,
Ho ho, hee hee, ha ha,
To tha Happy Home with Trees and Flowers
And Chirping Birds and basket weavers
Who sit and smile and
Twiddle their thumbs and toes
And they´re coming to Take me Away,
HAHAAAAAAAAA

I cooked your food,
I cleaned your house,
And this is how you pay me back
For all my kind unselfish loving deeds

RIGHT?

Well, you just wait,
They´ll get you yet,
And when they do, they´ll put you in
the ASPCA, you mangy MUTT,

Hardly the same. Verizon knows only in the sense that the software collects the data, summarizes it to charge you for your usage of their equipment. Verizon does not have any other interest in your calls other than billing you for them.

The government knows in the sense that they want to know who is calling whom.

It's possibly a little more than that. Provided they have the bandwith, supercomputers may be analysing the pitch of your voice to determine stress analysis and accurately establish the strenths/weaknesses of your personal relationships- to be put in a database and possibly exploited.

Ya'll Bushie-types seen to like it though. Why? Shouldn't you be strengthening the U.S. for the upcomming economic challenges from international 3rd-world communist compeditors?.........unless you don't want that.

The Truth is OUT THERE.....

Moses has been hitting the ether a bit. I trust Moses will see the error of his ways at some point. He has too much on his plate to do the necessary research required to come to an intelligent opinion...I, on the other hand, do nothing but my political homework. No kids, no practice, just a small transcription company to run. I correct doctors for a living.

Certainly not here, huh(?)
You Bushies always sound desperate, afraid, panicking. That makes me nervous 'cause you've "become" the US.

:D

Bushies, Bush'ists, Bushistas, what will you clever libs come up with next to discount the opinions of others??

You're right, it's all a big conspiracy to bring down your personal ability to post on PPOT :rolleyes:

quote:"I, on the other hand, do nothing but my political homework. No kids, no practice, just a small transcription company to run. I correct doctors for a living."


Mul- Are you funded by any outside source?.....say, any company associated with Texas/Virginian republicans that seeks to reelect the prez for life? That wouldn't be very democratic.
I wonder if it's possible you could accidentaly hurt people "identified" as democrats by "correcting" perscriptions?


This country is getting scary.

LOL, John you obviously have no idea what a transcription service is or does.

A transcription service simply types out a letter or medical note dictated by a physician. They do not have ANYTHING to do with prescriptions or therapies given to a patient.

Sheesh man, you really are approaching FastPaste tin foil hat status...

Oh, please. I have a coworker who runs a "small transcription company" as a side job. Don't be too impressed with yourself.

So I downplayed its size...sue me.

I just commented on the "correcting doctors" part because I've had my own experience with a "nurse" (she wouldn't give me a med. licence no.) sent by the insurance co. who was going to start "advising" my doctor (a spinal specialist) in person as to what treatments were "correct". My bad.

Yeah, NathansDad, I guess too much alcohol does make me paranoid as my tolerance has gotten so low these days. It also makes me pretty lazy and has a detrimental effect on my memory, liver, and kidneys. Good thing it's not pot, or I'd probably be more accepting of anti-democratic apologists like some on this board.
It just seemed kinda strange that in three years of smooth operation, my computer started self-destructing just that one week... and to think I was starting to put faith in "traditional" Republicans.

Still nobody wants to make their "private" information public here? You've proven my point.