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-   -   Death and Daily Strategies (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-topic-discussions/282343-death-daily-strategies.html)

livi 05-12-2006 11:14 AM

Thank you for sharing your thoughts. As always very satisfactory reading!

Ryan, I find your preface very interesting and impressive - although my language skills certainly leaves a great deal to be desired with such high level content.

Personally, it kind of feels like I am at the wrong place at the wrong time. Maybe I was designed for a different occupation, have not find the right hobby, woman etc.

Still, I think its all in my head. Someone ones said - you need to go with the flow, decide to simply enjoy who ever you are and what ever you do and .... be the ball. No, thats Chevy Chase in Caddy Shack.

Could it be a rising notion of having reach half time with other people than my self at the wheel ? From young age I wanted to be a musician - had all kinds of bands. My father is a pediatrician and so I became the same - 'its a good livelihood, broad education bla bla bla'. Well, it is. But some how its not me. I like it a lot and yet some thing is missing. I met women and in our joint ventures I got to decide in about 5% of our debates.

I donīt know. Maybe I am just thinking too much. Maybe I am dead already - just havnīt figured it out in this 'other dimension'.

BTW, why is it, if God exists, that he always is described as 'lovingly and benevolent' ? I mean, take a look around us. Is he joking or playing x-box with us? Anybody ever met the guy to bare witness of this benevolence ?

Duh, I need to get drunk. Swiftly.

RKC 05-12-2006 11:35 AM

Eastern wisdom is great. But for something more easily accessible, try Marcus Aurelius or Epictetus - they were Stoics living in a powerful, wealthy society filled with the usual human frailties and finding a reason to go on and a purpose that seemed worthwhile...

Nathans_Dad 05-12-2006 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by livi
BTW, why is it, if God exists, that he always is described as 'lovingly and benevolent' ? I mean, take a look around us. Is he joking or playing x-box with us? Anybody ever met the guy to bare witness of this benevolence ?

Duh, I need to get drunk. Swiftly.

A common misconception. God does not decide who is happy or not happy on earth nor does he control the movements or minds of humans. Men have free will. Men are responsible for the problems and ugliness of this world.

God just offers you a way out from his own free will.

livi 05-12-2006 12:09 PM

OK Rick. What is it then that God offers ?

BTW, rather a coincidence my mentioning Caddy Shack. Isnīt your dancing gofer avatar from that movie ?

- Excuse me, but if I kill all the golfers they will lock me up and throw away the key.

- Not the golfers !! The gofers !

- Not my fault nobody understand what youīre saying - you fussy little for'ner..

Nathans_Dad 05-12-2006 01:05 PM

Heh, yes that is the gopher from Caddyshack...appropriate for me since I am a hard core golf nut.

As far as what God offers, God offers the opportunity to commune with him. He offers an "escape hatch" if you will from our just punishment for our sin. I believe that all people deserve hell (which is simply eternal separation from God, the whole burning pit of fire thing is not Biblical). The Bible says the wages of sin is death and all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. God gave us a bridge to cross the chasm of our sin and rejoin him. That's it. Pretty simple but also very profound.

bigchillcar 05-12-2006 01:13 PM

Quote:

OK Rick. What is it then that God offers ?
christianity differs from other religions of the world, such as islam, in that the 'christian god' offers a 'personal relationship' with him that emphasizes the individual - this is big difference between christians and muslims who place less value on the individual's relationship with 'god'. acceptance of god's always-forgiving, unconditional love is supposed to welcome you into 'his kingdom' when one's mortal life is complete. what exactly that is will always remain a mortal mystery. there is a difference between the 'simple truth' implied in the christian bible and 'absolute truth', which mortal man is incapable of knowing. try ans we might..and we will..and god understands this - that we will continue to seek answers to the profound questions of existence - we will 'presumably' never obtain the knowledge of 'absolute truth'..until we die and pass into his hands. according to men like schaeffer, while the bible does not attempt to answer all questions to the nth degree, it does speak a 'simple truth' that was expected to provide biblical man with a framework from which to begin..and we've presumably again, advanced these past 2,000 years increasing our knowledge of the physical world, but it's like 'chasing the spped of light' - it simply is impossible to obtain 'all knowledge' in the mortal world..just as a particle of matter can only obtain 99.99999 (continuous)% of the speed of light, for it is then 'predicted' to have obtained 'infinite mass' were it to reach light speed and the realm of pure energy.
ryan

RickM 05-12-2006 01:18 PM

Re: Death and Daily Strategies
 
Quote:

Originally posted by livi
Calling for collective forum wisdom (again).
Some day - tomorrow or in fifty years - I will exist no more.


But you will exist. Through your offspring and the impressions you make on those around you.

livi 05-12-2006 01:35 PM

Alright. So now I know what He has to offer.

Now I want to know WHAT He is. Is he simply a concept or does he have a shape in some sense ? And, btw, does 'he' imply its a male ?

Suppose next question would be - WHERE is He ? If he carries some form of substance he should be able to locate (in some dimension or the other). Or is he scattered all around - in every person, animal, plant and bacteria ?

How does he communicate ? If he exists will he communicate with a non believer ?

Reckon his an old guy by now. Where is he from ? Did he come before there were anything else ? Is he a creation of man instead of the opposite ?

To a newbie, God is a very peculiar concept to grasp. The attraction lyes within the mystery however and no matter how funky the notion of a God might seem to me, I can not help but to wonder.

livi 05-12-2006 01:40 PM

Rick,

Thats a thought someone like me who is fascinated by the concept of "the selfish gene" really can dig. ;)

nostatic 05-12-2006 01:42 PM

i prefer to think of god as a she, and yes, she is everywhere. not old, not new. to me god is chi. she flows everywhere, and can flow within you if you let it.

i'llreiterate my previous suggestion: Pemo Chodron. Her books are very accessible yet powerful.

bigchillcar 05-12-2006 01:59 PM

the bible wasn't written of course by men who'd have any grasp whatsoever of our contemporary technology/culture. 'father' in those days would imply a person of 'more significance' than a 'mother', so it's a cultural bias of those ancient times more than anything. my opinion only, although doubtless shared by countless, is that 'god' would not be anything in the mortal sense of understanding..i kind of doubt that god would exist with the appearance of a 'very ancient man', as he's often found represented still today..but those today who still picture him in the 'literal biblical representations' are they themselves countless in number as well..just as there are those who view the concept of a 'hell' as a 'lake of eternal fire', while others find this to be a concept passed along to ancient man in words or descriptions that he could 'understand'. many today view hell as simply 'not being in the presence of god' upon death. he is described as 'always existing'..and if you're like me, with a strong background in classical and modern physics alike..you may choose to consider the possibility that he is 'timeless', not unlike a ray of light, which does not experience time (all motion and hence all time are slowed to zero 'in theory' at the speed of light). he 'could have' preceded the existence of the known physical universe(s) if he is responsible for their creation(s). but how he can have both 'no beginning and no end' is hard to wrap your mind around. it may be highly complex..or turn out to be a quite simple explanation, but doubtless will remain unanswered in the mortal world.
ryan

on-ramp 05-12-2006 03:23 PM

your time here has a start and it has an end...you may choose to do with it what you wish. life is short and death is forever so make it count.
get off your lazy ass and have some fun!

ianc 05-12-2006 03:37 PM

Well, the hard truth is that for most of us, life is essentially meaningless. Some humans, through exceptional talent or the right circumstances make an impact on future generations, but they are still dead. The vast majority of us don't even do that.

Life is short, and our lives aren't worth much except to us and our immediate family\friends. Consequently, you must live your life for yourself, to enjoy it as much as possible, and potentially to bring happiness\knowledge to others.

I don't think that 'being content' should have any relation to the fact that you will die someday. I think you are looking at your life and comparing it to something else that it can't be compared to. Life simply is. You live it for awhile, then die. If you grow, help other people and enjoy yourself while you're here, that's enough.

ianc

Nathans_Dad 05-12-2006 04:07 PM

Livi you can't paint God into a box. I know you want something concrete but I don't think you are going to find anyone who will give you a concrete "God is x" answer.

I don't think about God in terms of a gender. I suppose I use the word "he" when talking about God out of habit and familiarity since that is how he is portrayed in the Bible. I seriously doubt that God is male or female in the human sense of the word.

As far as where he is, he is all around us and in us. He is in the sunset that brings a tear to your eye, he is the small voice inside you that asks you to be better. He is a comfort in times of need.

If you really want to know who God is, you have to start to get to know him through reading his Word and talking with him through prayer. No one can tell you who or what God is to you, that's personal.

scottmandue 05-12-2006 04:19 PM

It is my understanding is that God as a spiritual being is neither male or female. My belief (and many other Christians) is that God is infinite so has no beginning or end therefor is not old or young.

The old guy with the beard sittng up in heaven with lightning bolts was Zeus IIRC. :D

Ryan, that is some great writing you have there.

LeeH 05-12-2006 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ianc
Well, the hard truth is that for most of us, life is essentially meaningless. Some humans, through exceptional talent or the right circumstances make an impact on future generations, but they are still dead. The vast majority of us don't even do that.

Pretty much what I was thinking as I read through the replies. My father was an aviation safety advocate. Did a lot of hard work to make commercial flying safer... he used to be on the news a lot, got hijacked in the '70s, testified before congress, etc. but in death is only a memory to his family.

Relatively few individuals will be remembered in history... probably what makes extreme acts of violence attractive to some - instant fame.

bigchillcar 05-12-2006 07:28 PM

Quote:

Ryan, that is some great writing you have there.
thank you, scott.
ryan

livi 05-13-2006 01:09 AM

As always - many thoughts worth contemplating.

Thanks.

One more thing: When taking drugs of different kinds, even simple cough medicine, many people will feel very good for the moment. In many cases its a biochemical function of anxiety relieve. A state in which life would feel so much more positive and happy to live. I would like that feeling of getting "high" on life it self 'au natural' as it were. Follows that it should be a matter of freeing ones life of anxiety producing circumstances as far as possible. Back to the mountain top in Tibet plan, I guess..

Gee, I am really rambling irrationally here !

Bill Douglas 05-13-2006 01:24 AM

You should'nt worry so much.

Me for instance; I lead a totally meaningless existance, my girlfriend tells me I'm a nasty piece of *****, and the only person who cares about me is actually a cat.

And I'm really happy.

livi 05-13-2006 07:38 AM

So I just need a new mantra then,

Donīt worry, be happy and,

always look on the bright side of life, di du di du di du di du...:)


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