More evidence of the police state

[fastpat]

Technical writer and author Mike Kresca was murdered by the San Diego Police, essentially for failure to obey. That now begs the question, why are these two thug cops still drawing a breath?

Murder-by-Cop?
Posted by Lew Rockwell at 09:41 AM

Former LRC writer Michael E. was shot dead by San Diego police last February. Thanks to A.W. who sent this horrific story, and who believes, like all his friends, that his killing was highly suspicious. May he rest in peace. As to justice, that is in short supply in police state USA.

re: Murder-by-Cop?
Posted by Lew Rockwell at 10:18 AM

Adds AW: "Here is one [law-enforcement] news account, 'clearing' the officer. It is suspicious to me in that they say Michael allowed them to 'pat him down' and then said he was reaching for the gun. Surely Michael knew if he was patted down they would feel the gun and magazine and was not stupid enough to try and pull an unloaded gun on them. Anyway, we are all shocked and saddened. If I hear more I will let you know. His girlfriend has said he would never have tried to reach for or hold on to a gun in that scenario."

Conservatives Love the State
Posted by Anthony Gregory at 01:36 PM

Michael Savage says we can trust Bush when he promises that he's not abusing his power with the 312-terabyte NSA phone call database, since Bush would never lie about something so important. I heard other conservative radio personalities echo the same line. If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear. Trust the state. Take your soma. We have always been at war with Eurasia.

Is there any doubt anymore about the essence of conservatism? It is love of the state and its leader above all else, above family, above community, above country, above God, and certainly above liberty. The only other explanation is that it's all partisan, and they wouldn't trust the Democrats with such police state powers. If this is the case, the conservative movement is even more dishonest than the left, and certainly at least as evil. It also means we should never let the right have power in this country again.

In any event, I read Lew's horrifying notice of Michael E. Kreca's death at the hands of the cops. This is the kind of thing that the government will continue to do even if the better conservatives were to get their dream -republic- implemented. Seeing as how I consider the police state a major threat to liberty and property rights-especially the most important property rights of all, those in one's own body and life-and seeing as how conservatives are the type who think that (1) if a law is on the books, it should be enforced and (2) the police should be given the benefit of the doubt when they gun someone down-I am not prepared to say that just because Bush has expanded the welfare state so as to launder its profits to his corporate buddies, that he's somehow not a "conservative." He perfectly represents the military state, the police state, and the corporate state. He perfectly embodies the conservative philosophy, as it has always existed, minus some mislabeled aberrations within tiny niches of the conservative movement during various short deviations in the 20th century.

Now, I know plenty of libertarian folks, and libertarian-leaning folks, who continue to call themselves conservatives and who don't love the state, who do in fact love family, community, country, God and liberty more than the state. I don't mean any offense to them, but I strongly and respectfully disagree with their self-applied label. Just because I love vegetables doesn't mean I'm a vegetarian-except, perhaps, according to Brad Edmonds's funny lexicon-and just because you have some values that conservatives claim to have doesn't mean you're a conservative. The bottom line, in my view, is whether or not you love the state. If you do, you're a conservative. If you don't, you're a liberal or libertarian. Everyone in the middle, including the socialist left and the protectionist paleo right, is just confused.
http://blog.lewrockwell.com/

[cowtown]

Originally posted by fastpat
That now begs the question, why are these two thug cops still drawing a breath?

Are you advocating the murder of officers based on your interpretation of a media report?

I think I'll stick with the imperfect justice system we have over the fastpat-as-judge-and-jury system you propose.

[Racerbvd]

Another crook is worm food, what is the big deal??

[GDSOB]

Shoot first, ask questions later has been standard practice in the 'nati for quite a while. In many neighborhoods, a police state is more attractive than the free for all now happening.

The trial lawyers keep the police power in check. The Queen City recently paid out 6.5mil to the family of a guy who died of complications after a choke hold.

[91S2]

Oh here we go again... you just love bashing cops.

[DavidI]

Pat is a comedian. The bad guy got what he deserves.....

David

[fastpat]

Originally posted by DavidI
Pat is a comedian. The bad guy got what he deserves.....

David

No, the bad guys got off, and the good guy was executed.

You wonder why the public opinion of the police is in decline, yet you're in denial about the cause.

[91S2]

nobody is in denial but you. Unfortuntely, for whatever reason, sometimes usually sane people make insane decisions in the presence of police who are legally authorized to act if they feel that their life or the life of another is in danger.
Get over it, the guy made a bad choice. If the cop didn't shoot him could the situation have been resolved without lethal force... MAYBE... but unfortunately there's no crystal ball that will tell them that before hand. Unless you're insane or up to no good, when a poilice officer approaches you and you're carrying a weapon you let them know and comply with every single command. And save me the crap that you think the cop is lying. Do you think for a second that anyone would want to shoot an innocent, compliant and non aggressive human being? I hope that you're life is just so mundane that you stir up this sh** from time to time to get a rise out of us, and no other reason. Because after reading your past threads I can't see any other rational to your babble... but than again maybe I'm the jacka** for humoring you.

[fastpat]

Originally posted by 91S2
nobody is in denial but you. Unfortuntely, for whatever reason, sometimes usually sane people make insane decisions in the presence of police who are legally authorized to act if they feel that their life or the life of another is in danger.
Get over it, the guy made a bad choice.

It's obvious the guy wasn't going to harm anyone, otherwise he'd have simply shot them at the initial contact. The cops wanted to assert authority, and in so doing escalated the contact with violence.

If the cop didn't shoot him could the situation have been resolved without lethal force... MAYBE... but unfortunately there's no crystal ball that will tell them that before hand. Unless you're insane or up to no good, when a poilice officer approaches you and you're carrying a weapon you let them know and comply with every single command

No, as a person on the public thoroughfare a cop has no authority to stop me and pat me down than I have to do the same to him. The cops escalated this situation to a violent confrontation, the sole responsibity for the man's death is theirs. The notion that a cop can make contact with you as you walk on the public thoroughfare including a pat-down search is foreign to America and Americans, and is in fact evidence of a police state, one that you apparently support.

And save me the crap that you think the cop is lying. Do you think for a second that anyone would want to shoot an innocent, compliant and non aggressive human being?

Yes, it happens all the time by local, state, and federal police agencies. The career attracts some of the worse bulies in society.

I hope that you're life is just so mundane that you stir up this sh** from time to time to get a rise out of us, and no other reason. Because after reading your past threads I can't see any other rational to your babble... but than again maybe I'm the jacka** for humoring you.

You either are or support the thug branch of government, the police, so you may indeed be a jackarse, but since you're not humoring me, it's from other causes, perhaps you're self made.

[DavidI]

Why was the dead guy carrying a gun? Most normal, law abiding people don't. He was already a felon at the onset. If you read case decision about search and seizure, you may learn the powers and limitations of law enforcement.

Based on your loathing of authority, it appears you were the "victim" of law enforcement. Tell us your story........I sit by the computer with anticipation.....

David

[Joeaksa]

Originally posted by DavidI
Why was the dead guy carrying a gun? Most normal, law abiding people don't. He was already a felon at the onset. If you read case decision about search and seizure, you may learn the powers and limitations of law enforcement.

Based on your loathing of authority, it appears you were the "victim" of law enforcement. Tell us your story........I sit by the computer with anticipation.....

David

Many of us have asked slopat about his previous relationship with LE and he refuses to discuss it. Bet it was a good one and wonder what he got caught for?!

[fastpat]

Originally posted by DavidI
Why was the dead guy carrying a gun?

Under American law, that is of course none of the state's business. The right to self defense is private property.

Most normal, law abiding people don't.

As if I'd allow a government agent to define normalcy.

He was already a felon at the onset.

No, he was not a felon, even under the draconian California system. Under the real law, he wasn't a criminal of any kind throughout the incident.

If you read case decision about search and seizure, you may learn the powers and limitations of law enforcement.

You're referring to decisions by the corrupt federal court system, completely irrelevant to me, and to any other real American. As time goes by, you'll learn about American law, from Americans that will no longer tolerate these usurpations of their rights.

Based on your loathing of authority, it appears you were the "victim" of law enforcement. Tell us your story........I sit by the computer with anticipation.....
David

That's always the way is is with thugs, you tell them that they can't have their way, and they assume you're some kind of person that should be targeted by them.

I'm only going to say this once more. I have never had a beef, or direct contact, or confrontation with any law enforcement officer or agent of the state. You, or any other state agent, has nothing to fear from me as long as you obey the US and state Constitutions, as they are written and not as interpreted by the corrupt federal and state court systems. If you, or any other so called law enforement officer or agent does not obey the law as I've stated, then you'll run the danger inherrent in that lawlessness.

Do you understand?

[fastpat]

Update by Karen De Coster:

Michael E. Kreca, RIP
Posted by Karen De Coster at 12:34 PM

Lew, I can't believe I'm hearing this. Of course this is highly suspicious. Michael had told me before of a run-in with the cops wherein he was beaten by the bastards. If I remember correctly, he suffered severe injuries from that beating. He often talked like he thought he was a marked man, though I never fully understood it. These pigs obviously knew who he was when they pulled him aside.

We used to correspond often, and in fact, though I had not spoken to him lately, I noted he had not been on Yahoo Messenger for a few months. What a shame. Several years ago, Michael sent me a package of fresh dates he grew in San Diego, and I felt bad for never sending the promised batch of Michigan tomatoes in return, but I had a crop failure that summer. Michael was a proud Serb, and he talked often about his closeness with his family. Let's hope that the man finds peace and that the cops get their due.
http://blog.lewrockwell.com/

[fastpat]

Originally posted by Joeaksa
Many of us have asked fastpat about his previous relationship with LE and he refuses to discuss it. Bet it was a good one and wonder what he got caught for?!

That would be nothing, Joe, beyond a simple speeding ticket which I paid, somethng like $100.00 IIRC.

Your assumptions fly in the face of your past support for gun ownership and self defense rights, when one made is made the prey of lawless government thugs, every American is the real victim.

Since it appears your core belief in the American system of private ownership of rights, and the right to keep and bear arms as a fundamental and absolute right, I'd suggest you sell all your guns, if you really own any, and then depend on government for your security.

[DavidI]

He was a felon and deserved what he got..........You should read the laws Pat. Do you carry a concealed loaded firearm in a public place? If so, you are a felon too. The right to bear arms has restrictions in public places. Private residences and business are another story.

David

[lendaddy]

Originally posted by fastpat
If you, or any other so called law enforement officer or agent does not obey the law as I've stated, then you'll run the danger inherrent in that lawlessness.

Do you understand?

What will you do Pat, lol. What a joke, if they enforce laws as recognized in their jurisdiction upon you and you disagree with that interpretation............What exactly is it you'll do? Does it involve sweatpants and army costumes?

Actually the likey result would be you wetting yourself in the back of the cruiser.

[fastpat]

Originally posted by DavidI
He was a felon and deserved what he got..........You should read the laws Pat. Do you carry a concealed loaded firearm in a public place? If so, you are a felon too. The right to bear arms has restrictions in public places. Private residences and business are another story.

David

Really? What in "The Right to Keep and Bear Arms Shall Not Be Infringed" do you fail to understand?

If he was robbing a bank, felon. If he was raping a woman, felon.

Carrying a firearm, law abidng citizen.

Period.

And yes, I carried concealed the entire time I lived in California, for as you know, the police have no duty to protect any individual citizen under California law. My right to self defense with any weapon is intrinsic to my existence, and as such, is not subject to arguments of utility nor to the democractic process.

[fastpat]

Originally posted by lendaddy
What will you do Pat, lol. What a joke, if they enforce laws as recognized in their jurisdiction upon you and you disagree with that interpretation............What exactly is it you'll do? Does it involve sweatpants and army costumes?

Actually the likey result would be you wetting yourself in the back of the cruiser.

Rick, since you have no knowledge of me on a personal level, you have no idea what I can and cannot do.

Further, it's no real surprise to me that you Bush'ists are in support of usurpations of intrinsic rights, your support of firearms ownership is as shallow as a cookie sheet.

This man was murdered by the police for exercising a basic right, and nothing else.

The real lesson in this is to not cooperate with the police at any level, shoot first and worry about the rest later. Mike Kreca's stopping and conversing with the police in a civil manner got him killed.

[yellowline]

Originally posted by fastpat
The real lesson in this is to not cooperate with the police at any level, shoot first and worry about the rest later.

If you, or any other so called law enforement officer or agent does not obey the law as I've stated, then you'll run the danger inherrent in that lawlessness.

Do you understand?

Do your First Amendment rights extend to threats, both explicit and implied? Just wondering. They'll be coming up to the compound soon, no doubt.

[widgeon13]

School yard bully and bar room lawyer


Don't give this guy an audience and he'll be talking to the grass soon!