ME 262 video

nine_one_4 · 05-22-2006, 08:20 PM

http://rapidshare.de/files/21152105/ME262.avi.html (91mb .avi)

Joeaksa · 05-22-2006, 11:35 PM

Nice old video but the BS and pop-ups you have to go through to get it are crazy.

There is a guy in the States building them again, believe he has made 6 of them using modern GE engines. Also have a friend who owns one and loves it. http://www.stormbirds.com/project/index.html

Also a company called Flugwerk building one of the best WW2 fighters ever made, the FW190. www.flugwerk.de

Joe A

tabs · 05-23-2006, 01:16 AM

There are also people who build WW1 aircraft notably the Forker DrIII Triplane.

Joeaksa · 05-23-2006, 01:36 AM

Noah,

No one that I know of is making the -51 right now. BF-109's and FW-190's along with the 262 are or were in very limited production. There was a guy who reverse engineered one or two Spitfires but not sure if he is still doing anything.

If you want a nice flying airplane, the Spitfire is the best of them all. FW-190 comes second then the rest were just a level below. The -51 was a good plane but its forte was its range and ability to withstand enemy fire. I have friends who have flown both (one in WW2) and everyone says that the Spit was the best flying but the -51 would bring you home. Same with the P-47 but it was really a truck to fly.

Tabs,

I have flown a lot of planes but not sure that I would get in one of the old WW1 birds. I fly a wood and fabric airplane for fun but the older stuff can be real flimsy.

tabs · 05-23-2006, 01:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Joeaksa

Tabs,

I have flown a lot of planes but not sure that I would get in one of the old WW1 birds. I fly a wood and fabric airplane for fun but the older stuff can be real flimsy.

Thatsa why they were considered to be REAL men...and not just Bus drivers in the sky.

Joeaksa · 05-23-2006, 02:06 AM

Well, two of these REAL MEN who were my friends died when their antique planes came apart in flight. We have a third friend who is still doing aerobatics in one of them and we are just waiting for the news that a wing has folded or tail section collapsed and he was not able to parachute out. He thinks that he is bulletproof and that "nothing will happen to him"...

Would rather be alive and a bit less of a real man I guess. Course I did not feel that way when I put on a parachute then strapped into the jet when I was in my 20's.

Old age does that to you... makes you appreciate life a bit more. You are more than welcome to push the limits if you wish. I have done it far too much in the past and do not feel the need to prove anything to myself or anyone else any more.

Joeaksa · 03:43 AM

Noah,

Have a very good friend whose Father in Law owns one of the most famous P-38's around. Guy named Lefty Gardner is one of the first members of the Confederate Air Force. He is an icon in the industry and unfortunately in his twilight years now.

I hired his son a few years ago, we became friends and he promised me a flight in the -38 when I was in the area. Fast forward two years ago and Darren's brother Ladd was flying the plane from an airshow in Tenn back to the family home in Southern Texas and one of the turbo/superchargers came apart and caught fire and he had to put the bird down in a field.

http://p38whitelightnin.com/accident/

http://warbird.com/lefty.html

The bird is being restored and eventually will be back in the air.

About the -51...

Speed it had and lots of it. If you kicked the second stage of the supercharger in below 12,000 feet it had so much torque that it would cause the plane to roll from the increase in power.

Maneuverability? Well, the Spit or FW would fly circles around it.

Firepower? It had eight .50 cal Brownings on it and thats a lot of power but almost every other countries fighters had only cannons or a mix of cannons and machine guns on them. Planes with cannons carried a lot less ammo and rate of fire was slower. If you got hit with enough .50 cal bullets (or just one in the right place) it would down the plane or pilot. If a plane got hit with just one 20 or 30 mm cannon shell it rarely was able to stay in the air.

Best way to equate the -51 to the other fighters of that period is that it was like the cars that America made then as well as now. Very good in most cases and fast in a straight line. Take a lot of punishment and will get you home. Compare most of them to a 911 and they are just different. Fast in curves and a straight line and very fine and well tuned machines.

We won the war not so much because our tools were better, which in many cases they were not but because we overwhelmed them with so much force on all fronts. Being right did not hurt either but their men were just as dedicated to stay alive and win as ours were, at least early on in the war. It helped that their leader was an idiot and made stupid decisions later on in the war but in the end there were just too many of us versus them and our leaders made the right decisions.

Another way to point this out is our tanks of that era. The Sherman tank had a puny 75mm main gun and compared to the Panzer was terrible. The 88mm gun of the Panzer was excellent and one of the best for many years. They could knock out our tanks 500 yards before our tanks could even fire on them due to the range of the 88mm versus our 75mm gun. It was only when we started putting boatloads of the Sherman on the battlefield and overwhelmed them on the ground as well as controlling the air war that the tide of battle started turning.

The P-51 was an excellent plane and it really came into its own later on in the war when it was re-engined with the RollsRoyce Merlin engine. With that and the drop tanks it was the first fighter in the war that could escort the bombers both to and from Berlin. This way the Luftwaffe could not ravage the bombers and the allies finally had the ability to bomb both day and night and slow the war down. Interesting thing is that German production in some parts of 1943 and 1944 increased over that of the earlier part of the war. Only when we started hitting them day and night did it finally take effect.

Enough rambling. All the old WW2 planes are interesting and everytime I get the chance to fly/ride in one I am all over it! If you ever get the chance to do it, its well worth it!

Joe

id10t · 05-23-2006, 04:29 AM

Noah - I think there is an outfit in S. Florida that has P51s that you can take up and fly, similar to what Top Gun Int'l. does in St. Augustine

id10t · 05-23-2006, 05:04 AM

Noah -

Found a link for you

https://www.stallion51.com/

Go do it. Make your dream come true.

nine_one_4 · 05-23-2006, 06:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Joeaksa

There is a guy in the States building them again, believe he has made 6 of them using modern GE engines. Also have a friend who owns one and loves it. http://www.stormbirds.com/project/index.html

Also a company called Flugwerk building one of the best WW2 fighters ever made, the FW190. www.flugwerk.de

Joe A

That is so cool. I had no idea someone was recreating these airplanes - it must take a huge amount of talent.

id10t · 05-23-2006, 11:25 AM

Now when you come down to Florida to fly that bad boy you gotta stop by here in Gainesville and buy beer

FrayAdjacent911 · 05-23-2006, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Noah
(the MG42 was fearsome),

Ever see an MG42 fire from about 10 feet away?

Heck of an experience!!

Joeaksa · 05-23-2006, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Noah
Great analysis, Joe.

This is very much true; the Germans were ahead of us in many aspects of military technology -- tanks, machine guns (the MG42 was fearsome), and aircraft. The invention and use of drop tanks, though, is probably one of the most significant events of the 20th century. After that, the end of the war came into sight -- victory, at least in the European theater, became only a matter of time.

I spent my entire youth building World War II model airplanes and building and flying radio controlled ones -- but I've never gotten to ride in a real one. Someday, someday...

Noah,

Most of us grew up doing the same thing and still dream of parts of it. You need to at least get a ride in the EAA B-17, which is touring the states right now. If you look on the EAA's site (www.eaa.org) you should find a link. http://www.b17.org/

The MG42 machine gun was so fast in its rate of fire that when it started being used in large numbers in 1943 the US Army had to make a training video for new recruits. Just the noise alone scared most soldiers to the point where they could not move. A normal machine gun pauses just a bit between each round and you can tell it. The MG42 cuts this pause down to a minmum and its rate of fire is very, very high. Just like ripping canvas, it is a steady sound and it really frightened almost anyone who was against it. We finally overcame it but it took a while. Interesting thing is that if you take the top cover off of a American M-60 MG that is still used today, much of its "innards" are a direct copy of the MG 42. It was and still is a very good weapon.

If you like things like this, look for a book called "the restoration of black six." Read it years ago and its about the British War Museum's restoration of a BF-109. The aircraft was built in 1944 and in fair shape when they started. The interesting thing was that they pulled the engine apart after 50 years and found that even after being in combat the last year of the war, that it was like new inside! Main bearings were standard/standard and all major parts were within new spec.

This was one of the things that doomed them. The Germans build things to last and they could not do what they would have considered a sub-standard job. During wartime an airplane usually lasts a year or less in those days. Engines did not need to be built to last 20 years when you could use them for 100 hours and put a new one on. The engines on Allied airplanes were usually overhauled at 50 hours and most never made it to 100 hours. The Germans did not have this mindset.

The resources that the Germans used to make everything to the standards they wanted could easily have been relaxed and allowed them to at least double their output. What would have happened had they had double the planes and tanks on the Eastern Front? At Normandy? We will never know but thank God we won that war. The Germans were two weeks away from breaking England in the Battle of Britain and had they invaded the UK Europe might all be speaking German even today.