Porsche to 308 part 2.....
 

Hey everyone,

I need your opinion on this machine I am looking at. It is a 1978 308GTS with 51k miles. The car has euro bumpers and a deep euro front spoiler. The ignition on the car has been upgraded to the eletromotive system($1600 and never have to replace those horrid $250 a pop dizzies again). These are the good points. The car runs estraordinarily well. Fastest 308 I have ever been in.

The bad points are as follows: The UBER rare and even more UBER expensive if you can find one Vitaloni column switch is broken but still functions (just looks really ugly in one spot, new one is over $3k if one is found). The last major service involved refurbushing the heads and the rest of the top end about 10k miles ago. Timing belts nor anything else have been touched since then(that means I will be replacing a lot of stuff in a few thousand miles). The seats were recovered with a very high quality non-leather material that looks original but it is not original leather.

The car is definitely a driver car which is what I am looking for but I have no idea what a fair price may be. I am thinking about $25k. What do you think?


thanks all-john

Re: Porsche to 308 part 2.....
 

My buddy has a 1981, it's been fun but the servicing schedule is creaping up on him quickly - I can see him starting to sweat.

Every thread on this topic has the Porsche guys saying RUN RUN RUN.

Might want to try the Ferrari Chat guys for something unbiased.

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/

I love the 308! Any pics?

The price sounds in the ball park, but it really depends on the particular car...

Re: Porsche to 308 part 2.....
 

Is it a 308GTB or GTS?

CONS:

25k for a carb'ed 308 is way too much, the t-belt and included service is well over $3000 and include the needed switch, well you can figure out the rest. Non-original leather is also a no-no.
My Father years ago had one, he was constantly messing with the syncros of the carbs, what a mess. Expensive maintenance.

PROS:

awesome car to drive, lots of appeal, quick, awesome sound:)

I forgot, you'll be happier with a injected GTSi VS a carb'ed one....trust me, they can be bought for 25k in 1981+ GTSi form.

The problem is asking Porsche guys to talk you into buying an Fcar. Ferrarichat is where I would go to get an opinion. The exhaust sound is pretty damn sweet though...

The sound that all talk about on the 308's have me confused. I have bunches of them! They don't sound all that ihat Impressive. Am I missing something? I can tell you that I would like to have one some day as a second play car

"They don't sound all that ihat Impressive..."

Yeah but I'm not an exhaust guy. Although I was sort of including the 360 Challenge I saw at the last track day. Guess I'm easier to impress.

Well the 360 is different !!!!!!!!!SmileWavy

It depends on what type of service was done. If the timing belts were changed, then the valve adjustment and cam seals should have been done at the same time. If they weren't........

Carb cleaning is part of the major service, once they are cleaned, the float heights done and filter changed, the idle speed and mixture adjusted they should be fine untill the next service...if not there is something causing a problem. The choke cable should not be connected as the system can jam. The warm-up idle speed cam works... sort of.

Needs to have a through PPI with a known 308 technician before even considering buying.

I disagree. I wouldn't want a 2 valve injected 308 (80-82 model years) at any cost. They are very doggy. Incredibly sluggish.

Unless you enjoy getting blown away by Honda minivans and the like at stoplights, stick with the injected 4 valve models (83-85) or the earlier carbed ones.

The 2 valve injected 308s have got to be the worst Ferrari ever made.

Yes, they are not speed demons but the 4 valve cars are still fetching $35k + where the reliability of the injected cars vs carb'ed one are slightly better.

I'd still own one :)

here are some pics of a GTSi Quattrovalve(32V)

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1149031414.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1149031433.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1149031444.jpg



http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1149031572.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1149031591.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1149031605.jpg

Isn't the top pic a 328?

Yes.

Yep, like an 85-86 328gtsi

My bad :(

If you haven't seen this, it is worth a read. Birdman's 308 Buying Guide

Ian

I have read every buyers guide on the net and off the net for the 308's. I have really done my homework. I have only seen a carbureted 308 once yet I have read so much, I feel like I could easily rebuild the engine in one. I am planning on performing all the maintenance myself so I am not too interesting in anything more than parts cost. 308 parts are not that bad.


I definitely feel as if the carbureted 308's are the end of an era. That is my main reason for wanting an early one.

I think it sounds good. I would go for a GTB, the Targas are real flexy I hear.

Sorry, I thought this was the 911 technical forum :rolleyes:

If Dickster will permit one more post.... Drive a GTB before you commit to a GTS. If you really plan on driving the thing, you won't want a GTS. 25k is actually low for an early carbed car but condition, service history and a bunch of little things make a big difference in the price. Never look at the price until you have first evaluated the condition, at a shop that does nothing but Ferrari work.

JR

Get a Copy of Sports Car Market
 

My advice is to take your time and follow the 308/328 market. These are not rare cars. (not even close) I would pick up a copy of Keith Martin's Sports Car Market and start looking at the prices that these cars get at auction. $25K is no bargain when you consider a low mileage, recently serviced 328 can be had for $45K.

Though I wouldn't know from personal experience these cars, everything I've read says you want to spend the money getting the best car. (Just like a 911, but even more so) I'm sure you can afford the 308, but can you afford the engine, trans and clutch rebuild?

Since there are plenty of these cars around, I would take your time and you'll be rewarded. Good luck.

Good advice Gavin but the diffence between $25K and $45K is HUGE to some one like me. I say if you are doing your own work, are OK with some non originality for better reliability (already has the electromotive) etc. then jump in. There is a big diff between people who drop off the car at the dealership every 6 months and folks like some of us who enjoy the hunt and the the repair and dont mind a bit of a bastard. Not too many collectors around here.

you can always just talk to wayne about it...

edit:
how do these cars drive? i know it's all about "the experience" :rolleyes: but i'm curious whether it's a "fast" car? similarly prepped etc, how would it compare on the track to an equally powered, equally old, 911?

I think a Euro carbureted 308 would keep up, if not pass an SC on the track. The top speed is higher and the balance of a 308 is very much like a big go kart. Very tight and quick all around.

HMM GTS or GTB. The problem is, I can't find a GTB yet. This GTS already has the electromotive ignition installed and had a top end rebuild within 10k miles. I do not want a car with 30kish miles because then I would feel bad about driving the thing. Get me one with around 50k miles with a good service history and I will be happy. I guess I can be patient and wait for a GTB to pop up.

As far as the value is concerned. From the reading I have been doing as well as my own humbel opinion, I feel as if the early carbureted cars are going to go the way of the Dino. Not in such a huge way as the dino but, I feel as if the cars that were made while Enzo Ferrari was still alive are going to be the most collectable models. Gotta remember, they made a TON of Dino's too. There is about 3/4 as many Dino's floating around as there are carbureted 308's. THe fiberglass bodied 308's are already getting over $50k now and they made about 900 of those. I guess we will have to just wait and see.

I agree Elombard, even though I don't have 25K burning a hole in my pocket. If that's the case, I'd recommend looking at the 308GT4. Admittedly, not as pretty as a GTB or GTS. but if you'd rather stick your toe into the Ferrari pool to check the water rather then your whole wallet, it might be the thing. You could use the money that you save for the upcoming repair bills.

Some comparison numbers per R&T:

'83 Ferrari 308GTS:
0-60: 7.9 seconds
80-100: 8.7 seconds
80-0: 254 ft.
Lateral G's: .810
MPG: 11.5 http://www.pelicanparts.com/support/smileys/pint1.gif
Weight: 3250

'77 Ferrari 308GTB:
0-60: 9.4 seconds http://www.pelicanparts.com/support/...ool_shades.gif
80-0: 288 ft.
Lateral G's: .804
MPG: 13

'78 Ferrari 308GTS:
0-60: 7.3 seconds
80-100: 7.6 seconds
80-0: 274 ft.
Lat G's: .852
MPG: 15.0
weight: 3305 lbs :eek:

'75 Ferrari (Dino) 308GT4
0-60: 8.0 seconds/ 7.0 seconds (from C&D)
80-100: 8.2 seconds (C&D)
80-0: 316 ft.
Lat G's: .798
MPG: 13.5
weight: 3270 lbs (C&D)

Conclusion: The much maligned 308GT4 is lighter then many of the later 308's, almost as quick if not quicker, has more room and costs -- wait for it -- half as much(?).

'81 Porsche 911SC
0-60: 6.7 seconds
80-100: 8.2 seconds
80-0: 248 ft.
Lat G's: .798
MPG: 18.5
weight: 2805 lbs.

'78 Porsche 911 SC
0-60: 6.3 seconds
80-100: 6.5 seconds
80-0: 248 ft.
Lat G's: .798
MPG: 18.0
weight: 2740 lbs.

'74 Porsche 911 2.7
0-60: 7.9 seconds
80-0: 273 ft.
MPG: 17.5

'74 Porsche 911 2.7S
0-60: 7.5 seconds
80-0: 273 ft.
MPG: 16.0

'69 Porsche 911E (4 speed no less)
0-60: 8.4 seconds (C&D says 7.0 seconds)
80-100: 7.6 seconds (C&D says 7.9 seconds)
80-0: 227 ft. (C&D)
MPG: 18.4 mpg
Weight: 2361 lbs.

Conclusion: Even my little 2.0 911E is essentially as fast as the much porkier 308's (which are almost half a ton heavier then my 911!!!), brakes much better, is more comfortable, has more room, gets better mileage and costs something like 20K less then a 308 GTB/GTS. So what does the 20K buy me except entry into a more expensive repair regime?

PS: Oh -- a 3.0SC also trumps the contemporary 308 hands-down.

Boy that 0-60 on the 77 car is unacceptable! I wonder what was going on there.

3300 lbs? boy, they're heavy. isn't that how much a 996 weighs?

The figures for the 77 R&T test are an anomaly. I recall there was something wrong with the car they tested, although it's been too long to remember what. All of the US-spec V8 cars prior to the 328 would turn a 0-60 time in the mid-7 second range.

The cars were quite a bit heavier than the equivalent 911, although you don't feel all the weight when you drive them. The carb coupes were around 3160 and the early GTS was another 65 pounds or so. They got progressively heavier until the 328, which was actually lighter than any of the 308s.

JR

I'll second that motion. 3300 lbs???? What were they thinking???

Yeah, I wonder why the '77 was so slow. 0-60 9.4 seconds! Maybe its a misprint?

If I remember correctly, it either had a bad clutch or the engine was out of tune.

JR

The weight bothered me a lot. These things are pigs. They don't have a lot of torque, so they feel dog slow. You have to give them a lot of gas just to keep up with modern traffic.

They also have very slow, ponderous, heavy and dead-feeling steering. The 911 has one of the best feeling steering systems, the 308 one of the worst.

I noticed the weight and lack of torque quite a bit when I drove it. My SC would kick my 4 valve 308's butt from here to Sunday in acceleration, no doubt. Very, very noticeable difference in speed, at least with my 2 particular cars.

IMO, the driving experience of a 308 is almost exactly the opposite of how the car looks. It looks light, fast and fun. It drives heavy, ponderous, and unfun. Most sports car enthusiasts, if they are being honest, will tell you they are disappointed with the driving dynamics of the 308. Or at least they dynamics didn't measure up to what they thought it would be.

Power wise, it wasn't until they punched it out to a 3.2 in the 328 that the 3X8 series got acceptable power in the US.

The 328s just lost it for me in the style. Something about the bumpers or something just killed the car. The Euro small bumper early cars with the deep front spoiler just look great. I probably would not be happy with a stock one and they are probably not a good car to modify much if you ever want to resell. I always thought an early carbed car with cams, aftermarket ITB,EFI, the Honda cambelt mod, euro headers, adjustable coilovers and fat black 17 inch wheels, roll bar and race seats would be the ultimate. Probably have to be buried in it because no one else would want it :-))

yeah, a misprint from the engineering guys to the factory guys to build the frame out of lead

I just found a real rogue of a car for $21,500. 1979 gts with no service records and 82,000 miles. If there were ever a car to run and hide on, this would be the one.

In terms of performance, everyone is dead on. Slow compared to the equivalent year 911. As long as emissions are not an issue in your state, then squeezing more power out of a carbureted 308 is a walk in the park according to Michelotto...... heh.

The very first item of business in the car I locate is going to be the cams, ignition, and jetting of the carbs. An electromotive ignition system really perks things up in the way of fire in the chamber. The '78 and '79 cars for the U.S. really suffered a lot from emission standards and the camshaft potential as long as emissions is not an issue is undoubtedly a real option. Remove the cams and send them to my cam guy and have a bit removed off the base circle and maybe a bit more duration and top all that off with proper jetting of the carburetors for more power and blam. Instant fast Ferrari.


Hey Wayne, If you are ever in need of the tensioner bearings, I know a couple of great places where the SKF bearings are much cheaper than most of this country's mainline F-parts dealers. How do dealers get away with getting $250 per bearing!? ouch.

Have you ever looked at the guy up north of Seattle who specializes in hot rod 308s? Actually he really likes the CIS dogs because the FI is so flexible. I agree I have always heard a little compression and cam go a long way in the 308 mill. It would really be nice to pick up one of the michelotto "kits" but they are hge money I IIRC.

John,

I don't know where you get your prices but the last 4 bearings I had a dealer put on my 328 were $41.60. It's been a little while but I doubt they're up to $250.

I think you need to start test driving some cars to see what you like. Make sure you find at least one GTB. Can your budget stretch to a 328? It's a vastly better car to drive.

JR

The various Ferrari parts websites I have been frequenting show tenioner bearings ranging anywhere from $60-$250. I figured the dealer would be the highest end in terms of pricing. Must be wrong on that one. No biggie.

My budget can stretch to a late model 348 but, I want a carbureted 308. That is the only real carbureted Ferrari that is still affordable (besides the 400 but, yuck). I have driven the 328, 308qv, 355, and most recently the carbureted 308. They feel incredibly pure. The compression in those motors is only 8.8:1 and the US cams/jetting are dreadful. Squeezing more power out of it will be time consuming but, that is all part of the experience and it will most definitely be worth it once completed. If I decided to dive head first into the engine, I will replace the pistons with a min compression of 9:8:1 as well as cams, jetting, ignition to compensate for said compression. I figure with that kind of setup I would be in the 270-290bhp range which would make performance most respectable. The early v-6 Dino guys always cook more power into their babies when rebuild time comes around. Why not do the same with a 308. I want to keep the engine bay stock looking though. No signs of any hot-rodding. Just more performance.