My Son Asked “Dad, whats Abortion?” - Page 12

M.D. Holloway · 06-13-2006, 07:42 AM

Has anybodies view on abortion changed since the beginning of this thread? Have you ever been pro-life and changed to pro-choice or vice versa?

Both sides have expressed rather good arguments - yet niether one would admit that but has it enlightened anyone or changed their minds? What would it take?

trekkor · 06-13-2006, 08:04 AM

I would expect witnessing an abortion first hand may have an impact.

KT

Mulhollanddose · 06-13-2006, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by trekkor
I would expect witnessing an abortion first hand may have an impact.

KT

That is why NOW/NARAL/Planned Parenthood are fighting against mandatory ultrasounds for women planning on slaughtering their womb dwelling babies.

tobster1911 · 06-13-2006, 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by techweenie
You expressed yourself in a way that mentioned only yourself and a grandchild. Your obvious lack of reference to the raped/impregnated daughter seemed odd to me. As if she were not significant in the equation. Reread what you posted and see if it doesn't appear that way.

I had a quote in my post that I was responding to. That had the rape/blah blah in it. I did not feel the need to retype it all back in. You phrased your questions with the implication that it was my choice what to do. I answered it.

The two kids that are closest to me could have been aborted.

1. My brother got a girl pregnant when they were in college. It would have been easier to just do away with it. As it was it cost him years of hard work to try to have a kid and wife and school and work to support them. Now I have a 4yr nephew who is the absolute joy of everyone's life. Could have been just too much trouble huh......

2. I just got married a month ago, to a girl with a 3yr old. She got pregnant from her boyfriend and could have "choosen" to just "fix" it. Would have save trying to make a bad marraige (to the boyfriend) work just for the kids benefit. Would have saved a messy divorce. Would have saved her from having to go through college pregnant and then with a tiny baby to take care of. Would have saved me the trouble of having to deal with her real dad. But now I have the most beautiful stepdaughter that I love dearly.

Yes these two people made a choice but you seem to think that most people, if given a choice. will choose the harder way? Then I read this

Quote:

Originally posted by Porsche-O-Phile
No question - if it was ever MY daughter that came to me in this situation and realized her life would be ruined by it and wanted "out", I'd not only support her, I'd take her to have it done and pay for it if necessary. It's HER decision - not mine (as I believe I've said).

It makes me very sad that people could "choose" to kill the kid because of something so stupidly absurd as "her life would be ruined by it". That is 100% an assumption on your part. There is NO proof that having a baby would ruin anyone's life. Make it more difficult sure, but anyone that has kids will tell you it is more than worth it. I have NEVER known someone who had a baby that later regrets not getting an abortion.

You all act like this is an exercise in logic and reasoning. How many of you have actally faced it in reality? Care to share?

LubeMaster,
I for one am glad you did not back down from answering the question, hard as it was. It shows that you take your son seriously. Most people here seem to think you should have blown it off and not dealt with the subject because it was too hard. Cheers.

trekkor · 06-13-2006, 08:24 AM

Good post, tobster. :clap-clap:

Porsche-O-Phile · Porsche-O-Phile's Garage

Actually his post sucked. It was full of conjecture and assumptions.

To clarify my position (which he obviously missed), my earlier statement was that I would SUPPORT my daughter and HER decision. I would not make it for her, nor would I be judgemental. It's her decision to have it or not have it. If I were in that situation though, I would choose to be a loving and supportive parent with what is undoubtedly a difficult decision for my child to make.

It's a shame that so many of the others here that love to toot their own horns about what supposedly great parents they are would deny their own daughters the comfort, understanding and support they should get.

I think when tobster trivialized "logic and reasoning" I pretty much realized how dismissable his entire position was. If one does not believe in the significance of logic or reasoning as the mechanism for reaching proper and correct decisions, what exactly do you believe in?

techweenie · techweenie's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by Porsche-O-Phile
Actually his post sucked. It was full of conjecture and assumptions.

To clarify my position (which he obviously missed), my earlier statement was that I would SUPPORT my daughter and HER decision. I would not make it for her, nor would I be judgemental. It's her decision to have it or not have it. If I were in that situation though, I would choose to be a loving and supportive parent with what is undoubtedly a difficult decision for my child to make.

It's a shame that so many of the others here that love to toot their own horns about what supposedly great parents they are would deny their own daughters the comfort, understanding and support they should get.

I think when tobster trivialized "logic and reasoning" I pretty much realized how dismissable his entire position was. If one does not believe in the significance of logic or reasoning as the mechanism for reaching proper and correct decisions, what exactly do you believe in?

Bravo, Jeff. Well put. You have more patience for this thread than I do.

RPKESQ · 06-13-2006, 08:43 AM

Mulhollanddose wrote:
Main Entry: 1mur·der
Pronunciation: 'm&r-d&r
Function: noun
Etymology: partly from Middle English murther, from Old English morthor; partly from Middle English murdre, from Old French, of Germanic origin; akin to Old English morthor; akin to Old High German mord murder, Latin mort-, mors death, mori to die, mortuus dead, Greek brotos mortal
1: the crime of unlawfully killing a person especially with malice aforethought

So by your own posted definition legal abortion is not murder. So stop saying it is. It is killing, but so is using condoms, or any other form of birth control. Are you against birth control? If so, how very interesting. That is the crux of letting women control their own bodies. If not, than it is no worst than any other method of birth control, except abstinence (which has a very poor track record, due to predominantly male action, so go back to women having the final say).

Hint: Critical thinking will see you though this, please ditch the emotional claptrap.

tobster1911 · 06-13-2006, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Porsche-O-Phile
Actually his post sucked. It was full of conjecture and assumptions.

I would choose to be a loving and supportive parent ...

...comfort, understanding and support they should get.

I think when tobster trivialized "logic and reasoning" I pretty much realized how dismissable his entire position was. If one does not believe in the significance of logic or reasoning as the mechanism for reaching proper and correct decisions, what exactly do you believe in?

Yep you sure deal with logic and reasoning. Nice and polite too....
You claim to be loving and supportive of your daughter but you have no love or support to show for your could be grandchild?

trekkor · 06-13-2006, 08:51 AM

The issue to many seems to be this: If a woman gets pregnant she wants all options available. This includes killing what is HER responsibility.

Being responsible for your actions in all aspects of life seems to be the least followed path. "It's too hard".

KT

Mulhollanddose · 06-13-2006, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by RPKESQ
1 : the crime of unlawfully killing a person especially with malice aforethought
2 a : something very difficult or dangerous b : something outrageous or blameworthy

1. Unlawful killing suggest a fair trial. The killing with malice directly applies with or without fair trial, in this case.

2. Abortion is dangerous, outrageous and blameworthy -- this is why the abortion lobby redefine it, people talk about it in hushed tones and why women are guilt ridden the rest of their natural lives after suffering one.

Abortion is a crime worse than rape.

Mulhollanddose · 06-13-2006, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tervuren
Mul - the Republican's certainly aren't an ideal party to hold up btw...

In this case, yes they are...Am I missing your point?

M.D. Holloway · 09:16 PM

Here are some pics of a kid that could have been aborted 19 years ago but wasn't. Her mom was a young college kid without any family support and her father was about 65K in debt. The option to abort was real and considered but in the end birth was choosen. If her parents came from tougher times maybe it would have been even more strongly considered.

I bet there are a few boys that are glad she wasn't aborted. Shes a good kid - bit of an attitude but all-in-all a good kid. To date she has cost me over $300,000.
I am glad we didn't kill her...

tobster1911 · 06-13-2006, 09:03 AM

Come on not fair. They only want to deal in logic and reasoning. It insulates them so that they don't have to face it. Much easier if it is not made personal...

Mulhollanddose · 06-13-2006, 09:13 AM

Lube...I have an aunt who was pushed to abort her child. At that time (1974) the "big-business" of abortion was not in place, nor the pro-abortion organizationis like Planned Parenthood...Thankfully the doctor my aunt saw, told her (because she was crying and obviously depressed) to have the child....She did...He is my cousin John, in his internship at a public hospital in Manhattan (OBGYN), married and like a brother to me.

Ten years later and he probably would have been aborted, as the procedure was normalized, falsely packaged and the artform of convincing a woman to have one perfected.

M.D. Holloway · 06-13-2006, 09:19 AM

True - take a good look into her eyes. Who could kill that? Scroll back up and really look - that could have never been. It would have been very simple. I had the resources to do it as did her mother. Even the Grandparents strongly considered it. Go, take another look. That person might never have been....

It is easy to pass laws that make little problems go away and couch them into a bunch of crap about personal rights and so forth.

Were not talking about a helmet law of the right to carry a gun or even put a murderer to death. We are talking about a life that didn’t choose its plight. It had no say so. It was an egg that goes and gets fertilized and began to grow like to should. Was the father a rapist or a relative of the women? The baby doesn’t know or care it is just trying to make it on its own. The pro-choice crowd won’t give it a chance.

RPKESQ · 06-13-2006, 09:24 AM

Mulhollanddose wrote:
2. Abortion is dangerous, outrageous and blameworthy -- this is why the abortion lobby redefine it, people talk about it in hushed tones and why women are guilt ridden the rest of their natural lives after suffering one.
Abortion is a crime worse than rape.

The above is opinion, not fact. Not legal fact. And considering you have no experience as a women who has been raped, not even informed opinion.

Mulhollanddose · 06-13-2006, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by RPKESQ
The above is opinion, not fact. Not legal fact. And considering you have no experience as a women who has been raped, not even informed opinion.

Nice retreaded attempt to silence debate...I speak not only for at least 50% of women, but I speak for the very woman at the heart of the violation of the Constitution we know as Roe v. Wade (Roe is a leading opponent to abortion; she was used like a whore by the pro-aborts).

Not only that, but I used to be a zygote, an embryo and a fetus...I absolutely have a right to defend them.

stevepaa · 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by LubeMaster77
The baby doesn’t know or care it is just trying to make it on its own. The pro-choice crowd won’t give it a chance.

Very touching, except the anti-abortion crowd wants to make birth a requirement for all pregnancies and put the mother in jail if she decides to have an abortion.

I don't approve of abortion, but will not outlaw it.

tobster1911 · 06-13-2006, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by LubeMaster77
True - take a good look into her eyes. Who could kill that? Scroll back up and really look - that could have never been. It would have been very simple. I had the resources to do it as did her mother. Even the Grandparents strongly considered it. Go, take another look. That person might never have been....

It is easy to pass laws that make little problems go away and couch them into a bunch of crap about personal rights and so forth.

Were not talking about a helmet law of the right to carry a gun or even put a murderer to death. We are talking about a life that didn’t choose its plight. It had no say so. It was an egg that goes and gets fertilized and began to grow like to should. Was the father a rapist or a relative of the women? The baby doesn’t know or care it is just trying to make it on its own. The pro-choice crowd won’t give it a chance.

We have what 12 pages of logic and reason. Didn't convince anyone of anything. Some of us try to make it personal and out come the cries of "Oh no you are trying to use emotions". I don't think anyone has the stones to tell you or me that we would have been better off...