Anyone work with engineers?
 

Im a software engineer at a large company here in the CA Bay Area, have been for 3.5 years now since I graduated college. Great work, great tools, I've learned so sooo much here. BUT.... In short, I love my work but hate the people I work with. Maybe its all engineers, maybe just software engineers specifically, but I've never been around a bigger group of one-up'ing, arrogant, insulting, stinking, control-freaks in my entire life.

These freakin' people do nothing but kick eachothers asses all day long and complain about how nothing is good/right/decent enough. "How was the weekend, hows the wife, do anything interesting?".... "Nope". And when they're done telling eachother how much everything everyone else does sucks, they find new and random things to tear apart: the CA highway system isn't optimized, the car dealer isn't fast enough, their TiVo doesn't have enough storage, you should do this, you shouldn't do this, that was stupid, and on and on...

My freakin' God, what the hell is wrong with these people!@#!@# Brilliant, _brilliant_ people, and all they do is complain, insult, and tell eachother who they should and shouldn't be. Its only Monday and Im ready to take a flame-thrower to these *******s.

I think my days as a software engineer, atleast at this company, may be numbered... {sigh}

/end_rant

Welcome to the jungle.

<i>"My freakin' God, what the hell is wrong with these people!@#!@# Brilliant, _brilliant_ people, and all they do is complain, insult, and tell eachother who they should and shouldn't be. Its only Monday and Im ready to take a flame-thrower to these *******s."</i>

Wow, sounds just like the OT board. Oh wait, I'm an engineer and I'm complaining.

That's pretty much right. . . For people that had a reputation of being such academics/brainiacs/nerds in college, they sure do a helluva lot of nothing. Not to toot my own horn, but the architects in my office (of which I'm one) probably get done 10x as much in a given day (including the requesite hand-holding for our engineers) than one of these clowns - and we actually have some of the best out there.

The real kick-in-the-balls is these guys probably make 1-1/2 times what we do for comparable experience.

no no no. Engineers are easy to deal. Try Quality consultants!

One of my favorite Dilberts was where they were all complaining and not doing anything, until Dogbert showed up with the "Strap-on Spines"!

Ditto

Re: Anyone work with engineers?
 

WHAT A COMPLETELY STUPID RANT! The flow and the wording isn't what I would've used and to use a flame thrower would actually cost more than just using a knife! You obviously didn't think this rant through before posting. There is ANOTHER 30 seconds I can't get back!

BTW: I'm an Engineer and that was a very nice stereotype!

REALLY, we aren't all like that! :rolleyes:

Ah ****. I was afraid you guys would say this. Wow, I feel like I've just discovered one of those painful life lessons you only learn when your childhood dreams are crushed by adult life.

"Strap-on Spine" LOL!

Well I can sort of understand this rant, especially if you are a TECHNICIAN and NOT an Engineer! Only Technicians complain like this. LOL!!!!!

EDIT: You MUST be a Technician!!!!! LOL!!!! :D
Where's Souk?

I've enjoyed the very engineer'y responses, but I think in my workplace I would probably be responded to with:

"You must be a pretty bad engineer"

I was wondering if you were ACTUALLY an Engineer or not!!! :D

Seriously though - don't worry about it. Really there are like 90+% of Engineers that are like you describe. That is the 'nature of the beast' unfortunately. But then there are the few like you and I that see the fun side of life and do good work while on the job and take that nice paycheck home and ACTUALLY enjoy life! You know drinking, smoking, gettin' hookers, taking trips, working on the car, etc.... Don't tell me you don't drink!?!?!?! I'd say 99% of Engineers drink! We've calculated out how much brain loss we can actually lose before making an impact on our intelligence. I have another 25.67 years ahead of me. ;)

at least they can comunicate, try civil engineers... when can you tell a civil engineer is outgoing? when he looks at your shoes when he speaks, as opposed to his own..

math geeks, every last one.

Have a case of 9mm ammunition delivered to work. I did that and attitudes of my co-workers seemed to change overnight.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1129667480.jpg

I work with SW Engineers, QA folks and even artists all day. They are all nice people that enjoy what they do. Then again, we make video games. I share a hallway with the Forza Motorsports Team.

Ego and competitiveness. All good engineers have plenty of both and we all want to have the answer.

The worst engineers I've met let it get in the way of the job at hand. The need to be "right" overwelms the need to arrive at the right answer.

This is old and very true. I pull it out every few years and laugh everytime:

----------------Engineers Explained--------------------------------

People who work in the fields of science and technology are not like
other people. This can be frustrating to the nontechnical people who
have to deal with them. The secret to coping with technology-oriented
people is to understand their motivations. I learned their customs and
mannerisms by observing them, much the way Jane Goodall learned about
the great apes, but without the hassle of grooming.


Engineering is so trendy these days that everybody wants to be one.

The word "engineer" is greatly overused. If there's somebody
who you think is trying to pass as an engineer, give him this
test to discern the truth.


ENGINEER IDENTIFICATION TEST


You walk into a room and notice that a picture is hanging crooked.
You...

A. Straighten it.
B. Ignore it.
C. Buy a CAD system and spend the next six months designing a
solar-powered, self-adjusting picture frame

c The correct answer is "C" but partial credit can be given to anybody
who writes "It depends" in the margin of the test or simply blames the
whole stupid thing on "Marketing."

SOCIAL SKILLS

Engineers have different objectives when it comes to social
interaction.

"Normal" people expect to accomplish several unrealistic things from
social interaction:

*Stimulating and thought-provoking conversation
*Important social contacts
*A feeling of connectedness with other humans

In contrast to "normal"
people, engineers have rational objectives for social interactions:
*Get it over with as soon as possible.
*Avoid getting invited to something unpleasant.
*Demonstrate mental superiority and mastery of all subjects.

FASCINATION WITH GADGETS

To the engineer, all matter in the universe can be placed into one of
two categories: (1) things that need to be fixed, and (2) things that
will need to be fixed after you've had a few minutes to play with
them.

Engineers like to solve problems. If there are no problems
handily available, they will create their own problems. Normal people
don't understand this concept; they believe that if it ain't broke,
don't fix it. Engineers believe that if it ain't broke, it doesn't
have enough features yet. No engineer looks at a television remote
control without wondering what it would take to turn it into a stun
gun. No engineer can take a shower without wondering if some sort of
Teflon coating would make showering unnecessary. To the engineer, the
world is a toy box full of sub-optimized and feature-poor toys.

FASHION AND APPEARANCE

Clothes are the lowest priority for an engineer, assuming the basic
thresholds for temperature and decency have been satisfied. If no
appendages are freezing or sticking together, and if no genitalia or
mammary glands are in plain view, then the objective
of clothing has been met. Anything else is a waste.

LOVE OF "STAR TREK"

Engineers love all of the "Star Trek" television shows and movies.
It's a small wonder, since the engineers on the starship Enterprise
are portrayed as heroes, occasionally even having sex with aliens.
This is much more glamorous than the real life of an engineer, which
consists of hiding from the universe and having sex without the
participation of other life forms.

DATING AND SOCIAL LIFE

Dating is never easy for engineers. A normal person will employ
various indirect and duplicitous methods to create a false impression
of attractiveness. Engineers are incapable of placing appearance above
function.

Fortunately, engineers have an ace in the hole. They are widely
recognized as superior marriage material: intelligent, dependable,
employed, honest, and handy around the house. While it's true that
many normal people would prefer not to date an engineer, most normal
people harbor an intense desire to mate with them, thus producing
engineerlike children who will have high-paying jobs long before
losing their virginity. Male engineers reach their peak of sexual
attractiveness later than normal men, becoming irresistible erotic
dynamos in their mid thirties to late forties. Just look at these
examples of sexually irresistible men in technical professions:

* Bill Gates.
* MacGyver.
* Etcetera.

Female engineers become irresistible at the age of consent and remain
that way until about thirty minutes after their clinical death.
Longer if it's a warm day.

HONESTY

Engineers are always honest in matters of technology and human
relationships. That's why it's a good idea to keep engineers away from
customers, romantic interests, and other people who can't handle the
truth.

Engineers sometimes bend the truth to avoid work. They say things
that sound like lies but technically are not because nobody could be
expected to believe them. The complete list of engineer lies is
listed below.
"I won't change anything without asking you first."
"I'll return your hard-to-find cable tomorrow."
"I have to have new equipment to do my job."
"I'm not jealous of your new computer."

FRUGALITY

Engineers are notoriously frugal. This is not because of cheapness
or mean spirit; it is simply because every spending situation is
simply a problem in optimization, that is, "How can I escape this
situation while retaining the greatest amount of cash?"

FOCUS: POWERS OF CONCENTRATION

If there is one trait that best defines an engineer it is the ability
to concentrate on one subject to the complete exclusion of everything
else in the environment. This sometimes causes engineers to be
pronounced dead prematurely. Some funeral homes in high-tech areas
have started checking resumes before processing the bodies. Anybody
with a degree in electrical engineering or experience in computer
programming is propped up in the lounge for a few days just to see if
he or she snaps out of it.


RISK

Engineers hate risk. They try to eliminate it whenever they can.
This is understandable, given that when an engineer makes one little
mistake the media will treat it like it's a big deal or something.

EXAMPLES OF BAD PRESS FOR ENGINEERS
* Hindenberg.
* Space Shuttle Challenger.
* SPANet(tm)
* Hubble space telescope.
* Apollo 13.
* Titanic.
* Ford Pinto.
* Corvair.

The risk/reward calculation for engineers looks something like this:


RISK: Public humiliation and the death of thousands of innocent
people.
REWARD: A certificate of appreciation in a handsome plastic frame.

Being practical people, engineers evaluate this balance of risks and
rewards and decide that risk is not a good thing. The best way to
avoid risk is by advising that any activity is technically
impossible for reasons that are far too complicated to explain.

If that approach is not sufficient to halt project, then the engineer
will fall back to a second line of defense: "It's technically possible
but it will cost too much."

EGO

Ego-wise, two things are important to engineers:
* How smart they are.
* How many cool devices they own.


The fastest way to get an engineer to solve a problem is to declare
that the problem is unsolvable. No engineer can walk away from an
unsolvable problem until it's solved. No illness or distraction is
sufficient to get the engineer off the case. These types of
challenges quickly become personal - a battle between the engineer
and the laws of nature. Engineers will go without food and hygiene for
days to solve a problem. (Other times just because they forgot.)

When they succeed in solving the problem they will experience an ego
rush that is better than sex- including the kind of sex where
other people are involved. Nothing is more threatening to the engineer
than the suggestion that somebody has more technical skill. Normal
people sometimes use that knowledge as a lever to extract more work
from the engineer. When an engineer says that something can't be
done (a code phrase that means it's not fun to do), some clever
normal people have learned to glance at the engineer with a look
of compassion and pity and say something along these lines: "I'll ask
Bob to figure it out. He knows how to solve difficult technical
problems."


At that point it is a good idea for the normal person to not stand
between the engineer and the problem. The engineer will set upon the
problem like a starved Chihuahua on a pork chop.

As an engineer with over 20 years of experience (I'm complaining, not bragging), I can say that the above is absolutely correct. We have probably 1500 or so engineers right here at my facility and with the exception of the "Star Trek" thing, it's all correct.

Most of us seem to be more hardcore "Monty Python and the Holy Grail" types. I walked into a large meeting (probably 100 people in the room) a while back and I hear this voice shout out, "Old woman!". I instinctively replied, "I'm not old!"...

Mike

Ditto. Civil engs in general are easy to deal with. IT nerds on the other hand are impossible. :D

Being an electrical engineer, I noticed there are two types of engineers.
The pocket protector wearing desk engineer who is stuck in an office, and us "field engineers" that get to roam the world and get dirty once in a while.:D
We are a much happier breed.:p

Maybe its just a big corporation thing. When I took a job at a big engineering and surveying company I saw a lot of backstabbing. I saw a lot of people, that would see a potential problem and instead of fixing it before it was a big problem, let it turn into a big problem THEN fix it. This was followed by them making sure everyone knew they just saved the day.

There's the ladder, lets all take each other out as we try to be the first to the top.

I do not miss those days at all.

I love the ammunition idea. . . Awesome!

The civil guys we have in my office are actually okay. The electrical guys are okay but you have no idea what the hell they're talking about half the time - and no social skills. The mechanical guys strangely enough are the worst. They're the biggest slackers I've ever come across and on paper, these guys have amazing credentials. They lie, duck questions, dodge responsibility, etc. It's really frustrating to a project manager because you're trying to keep things on track and on schedule and these "productivity plugs" keep screwing it up. Technically their work is fine (usually, although I've found and had to correct THEIR mistakes before) but their ability to understand concepts like "schedule" and "budget" and "you're-making-us-look-bad-to-the-client" are woefully lacking. First chance we get I think we're gonna' schite-can a couple of 'em.

In my job as a guide in the only tidal power generating plant in North America, I am often asked if I was an engineer before I retired.
I was/am not. I am just a 'gear-head who gets a kick out of the technology in the place.
However, when I am asked the question, I always check to see if my shoes are tied and sometimes I ask if my explaination was that bad. ;)
Les

That's funny because in my firm (less than 100 employees), there is but one project manager that cares about budget and keeping face with the client. The rest of them don't know a damn about the work they assign and expect the bull***** "experts" to waste hours on hours trying to engineer the most simplest thing. Then the PM's push the project out the door...On top of that, my management has found it fit to hire contract engineers that have 20+ years in the industry. Instead of being productive "experts" they soak up hours and produce crap that I have to fix. Yeap, I've got the "I'm good complex," but my designs work, and I take accountability for my work....and the work of other engineers working on my project sometimes.

A seasoned engineer should know the basics. I am constantly "dealing" with engineers because they can't do their own work which generally requires basic engineering. Then I get a blank stare...just before they march back to their desk to spend another hour or two thinking of the next stupid thing to do.

I've got no patience for supposed seasoned engineers that can't do the simpliest engineering. And the contracted guys are getting paid 2-3X what I'm getting paid...just so they can sit on my projects and take half of my day asking stupid questions. Worst is when they come to you for help...then expect you to do the work for them.

Those same idiots love to cooler talk and tell their buddies (we call them the "Whack Pack") how expert they are in all things. And one of them is a Trekkie....goes to conferences and even met his wife at a conference. They spend a good 2-3 hours jerking each other off so they can feel like experts.



I like what Chuck posted: "Ego and competitiveness. All good engineers have plenty of both and we all want to have the answer. The worst engineers I've met let it get in the way of the job at hand. The need to be "right" overwelms the need to arrive at the right answer."

I see some of this everyday...the need to be right which overwhelms good engineering ethics.

I'll add this to the list of worst characteristics for an engineer.

Those that take the stand that "that's the way it was done before...and that's what was on the drawing the client sent."

This requires no engineering. What the hell do we need the engineer for then? A good drafter could have done just that!

Granted some things don't need to be re-engineered, but the above type of engineer doesn't go so far as to question and review the design to see if it fits the current project! Errors from the old way or old drawings are carried forth.

It's a wonder how some of these supposive experts have remained in the industry for so long....I guess when you can bull***** the bull*****er that is your boss....you'll survive.

Sounds like an environmental problem due to the culture of the company you work for.
I work with mechanical engineers and I R one 2. Mostly we are too focused on the task(s) at hand to be rude or even notice if someone else is being obnoxious. Most of the engineers I work with are just a few years removed from school so maybe that helps. I'm the senior guy in terms of experience. This company likes to hire young kids fresh after graduation and then mold them into what they want. if the kid excels he is eventually moved into upper management. My job is to supply real world experience and training to them to match their booksmarts.
Often times it seems like I am training my next boss.

Chuck's post is one of the most accurate portrayals of engineers I have read and my wife is convinced it was written specifically about me. I don't know if that is good or bad.

I do own a pristine and rare copy of the prime directive and 2 books that show every version of the Enterprise spaceships down to the smallest details including blueprints and a complete explanation of the differences of each ship and the history.
Some of the details in the two books are not consistant but I've indentified and categorized the conflicting information and determined which details are correct and which are false.
I've read several theoretical papers on matter/anti-matter reactors like the ones used in the Enterprise and I actually think it could be possible.
I'm not a trekkie though, i've been to one trekkie convention and those guys are weird!

I think engineers need a little cinicism in there life. If you always thought something was adequate, you'd never brainstorm on ways to make it better.

Hey MichiganMat,
I'll trade job whinning stories. My job is to take these engineer types, make them customer friendly and bring them into the customers world. I implement ITIL across IT Departments. Talk about herding cats!
Best of luck to ya.

thanks toby, btw...nice shoes.

Heh heh, exactly. I think Software Engineer came into being shortly after Sanitation Engineer. Nothing like self imposed titles.

Still my favorite, as seen on a resume, was a guy who had experience as a "Sandwich Artist". Guess that's what they're called at Subway.

Before I retired, before I sold the equipment designed by our engineering dept, I worked with them as a Field engineer. Glorified Tech.
I learned quickly there are two types. The doers and the talkers.
The doers are too busy making things happen to get involved with any two bit water cooler bull.
The talkers are a legend in their mind, at least until it's nut cutting time.
Never knew what hit 'em.
I worked in my office and stayed as far away from the office crap as possible.
When one of these idiots stopped in my office, they got nothing. Soon learned to keep walking.
Best way to handle the fools, just get your coffee and keep working.

I've been writing software since 1985 and I'm trying to think of someone I've worked with that acted like a jerk and I can't. I've pretty much always worked for small companies though (2-8 engineers total).
-Chris