Health Care

[widebody911]

Two patients limp into two different American Medical clinics with the same complaint. Both have trouble walking and appear to require a hip replacement.

The first patient sees the family doctor after waiting a week for an appointment, then waits eighteen weeks to see a specialist, then gets an x-ray, which isn't reviewed for another month and finally has his surgery scheduled for 6 months from then.

The second patient is examined within the hour, is x-rayed the same day and has a time booked for surgery the following week.

Why the different treatment for the two patients?

The first is a Senior Citizen.

The second is a Golden Retriever.

[Joeaksa]

Was in England recently. One friend was having problems with her back and we discussed options. She actually left England and took the train to Europe to see a doctor. Seems that to get in and taken care of in England would take months, where a Doctor in Holland, Germany or Belgium would see her immediately.

Sociaized medicine is fine but some things sure could use improving.

[coloradoporsche]

I am not a fan of socialized medicine, but I do need to defend England here...

I was on vacation in London about 8 years ago and developed a strange and "symptom" that I wanted to have checked out. Anyway, I walked into a hospital, was sent to a specialist in the same building, got treated free of charge, and went on my way without so much as signing my initials anywhere.

It was the most hassle-free medical experience of my life.

[Nathans_Dad]

Thom the experience you describe is due to the poor reimbursement that medicare provides which leads to long wait times due to low numbers of physicians who want to accept low medicare reimbursement for an expensive and possibly complicated hip replacement surgery. Try the same scenario with private payor insurance and you will see a vastly different result.

Want to make ol Granny wait longer? Go to a government administered national healthcare system.

[Moses]

Originally posted by widebody911
The first is a Senior Citizen.

Who has Medicare. The surgeon will make about $1,200. Overhead with malpractice insurance runs about 50%


The second is a Golden Retriever.

The owners will pay cash. No red tape. No Medicare compliance obstacles. No malpractice. The vet will be payed nearly twice as much as the surgeon.

[Christien]

I'd say overall, for the entire country, socialized medical care is the better option, but wait times are most definitely a HUGE problem, and in some ways threated the entire system. It's my belief that here in Canada we simply (as a country) can't afford the health care system the country wants and that the politicians believe we have.

[john70t]

Why doesn't Medicare have enough money for reimbursment? Why?

-Is it the national debt due to invading the wrong country?
-Is it the diversion of educational funds (that could train a multitude more doctors) into the pockets of porkbelly monopolies?
-Is it the cost and outrageously draining system of training advanced medical personell that creates a closed and elitest grouping of those who succeed?
-Is it the inconsistent tracking and correction of bad medical personell by the AMA creates a feding frenzy for medical tort suits?
-Is the legal system? The insurance system? Is it by design?



Soylent green. Logans run. Animal nature.

[Nathans_Dad]

Originally posted by john70t
Why doesn't Medicare have enough money for reimbursment? Why?

-Is it the national debt due to invading the wrong country? -- UM, no. Medicare reimbursements have been falling for decades.
-Is it the diversion of educational funds (that could train a multitude more doctors) into the pockets of porkbelly monopolies? --Um, no. The problem isn't a lack of doctors. The problem is that no matter how many doctors you train, none of them want to work for peanuts. At least not any that you would want operating on YOUR grandma.
-Is it the cost and outrageously draining system of training advanced medical personell that creates a closed and elitest grouping of those who succeed? -- Um, no. I'm not sure exactly what you mean by this, would you rather have an easier method of training so that the doctor who cuts YOUR belly open doesn't know his arse from a spleen?
-Is it the inconsistent tracking and correction of bad medical personell by the AMA creates a feding frenzy for medical tort suits? --Um, no. Poor tracking of physicians is not the reason behind the current tort nightmare. The reason is unrestrained, unethical ambulance chasing lawyers who throw any piece of ***** lawsuit up against the wall because they know it costs the insurance company less to settle than to fight even a frivolous lawsuit.
-Is the legal system? The insurance system? Is it by design? -- Um, no. I guess the legal system is addressed in the section above but malpractice insurance has little to do with medicare reimbursement rates, except for the fact that they factor into the physicians overhead, but that is the same whether you accept medicare or private insurance. The medicare rate is still much less.

If you really want to know what the problem is, it's pretty simple. Medicare is trying to pay for care for a boom of elderly patients. Modern medicine can keep people alive for longer now, which means they suck up more health care dollars through their lives. Not only that, but medicine in America is pretty high tech these days and granny (and her family) sure don't want to be told that they can't have that new MRI that might diagnose her problem because medicare doesn't want to pay for it.

So, we have more patients, living longer and requiring increasingly expensive health care.

See? Simple.

[Dantilla]

Originally posted by Christien
I'd say overall, socialized medical care is the better option,

Health care by the same people that brought you the DMV? No thanks.

The Government already controls health care with the Veteran's administration and Bureau of Indian Affairs. Only after those two institutions are run effectively and efficiently shoud there be any talk of socialized medicine. We're a long way away from that.

[Moses]

Originally posted by john70t
Why doesn't Medicare have enough money for reimbursment? Why?

-Is it the national debt due to invading the wrong country?
-Is it the diversion of educational funds (that could train a multitude more doctors) into the pockets of porkbelly monopolies?
-Is it the cost and outrageously draining system of training advanced medical personell that creates a closed and elitest grouping of those who succeed?
-Is it the inconsistent tracking and correction of bad medical personell by the AMA creates a feding frenzy for medical tort suits?
-Is the legal system? The insurance system? Is it by design?

Oh, dear god...

7%

I printed that figure in large type hoping it would sear into your brain. Seven percent. That's the percentage of the national health care expenditure that goes to physicians.

Looking for pork? Try the insurance companies, hospitals, pharmaceutical companies and the high-tech medical device industry.

[Moneyguy1]

So...Precisely who is profiting from this boondoggle?

[Moses]

Originally posted by Moneyguy1
So...Precisely who is profiting from this boondoggle?

Insurance companies, hospitals, pharmaceutical companies and the high-tech medical device industry.

[Nathans_Dad]

From medicare? I'm not sure anyone profits from medicare.

Hell I don't think it's actually POSSIBLE to profit from medicare. The world would spin off its axis or something. Medicare just sucks money in...no money comes out. It's like a black hole.

[Moses]

Originally posted by Nathans_Dad
From medicare? I'm not sure anyone profits from medicare.

Medicare has become dangerous. They perform unannounced audits of your charts and if you are not a diligent record keeper, you could be in big trouble. If your documentation does not follow Medicare's strict guidelines, you can be charged with fraud. In most cases, they take 6 months or a year of your earnings as a penalty and you walk away grateful they didn't pursue a more aggressive course.

No, there is no "due process."

[john70t]

-Is it the national debt due to invading the wrong country? -- UM, no. Medicare reimbursements have been falling for decades.

Yup. The effects of Star Wars national debt and Texas SNL fraud bailout keeps on rippling, decades after the fact. It seems to have started when the mega corps found they could make a buck by selling out their jobs/training/etc to other countries. There's your "patriotism". Like Enron, everyone was happy when they were part of the program.


-Is it the diversion of educational funds (that could train a multitude more doctors) into the pockets of porkbelly monopolies? --Um, no. The problem isn't a lack of doctors. The problem is that no matter how many doctors you train, none of them want to work for peanuts. At least not any that you would want operating on YOUR grandma.
Umm, supply and demand benefiting the consumer? I know, I was'nt very good with business stuff in school either.

-Is it the cost and outrageously draining system of training advanced medical personell that creates a closed and elitest grouping of those who succeed? -- Um, no. I'm not sure exactly what you mean by this, would you rather have an easier method of training so that the doctor who cuts YOUR belly open doesn't know his arse from a spleen?

[sacrcasm]Yeah you're right. 4-6 years of 16 hour days in residency and a quarter million plus in school debt, combined with entering a group structure of burocracy more focused on economics and legality will obviously create a better physician. "I'm not touching her, I might get sued"[/sacrcasm].
There's a reason the drug companies spend 3 times more on advertizing than RnD, and that 80% of issued patents are dosage changes with some inerts thrown in.

-Is it the inconsistent tracking and correction of bad medical personell by the AMA creates a feding frenzy for medical tort suits? --Um, no. Poor tracking of physicians is not the reason behind the current tort nightmare. The reason is unrestrained, unethical ambulance chasing lawyers who throw any piece of ***** lawsuit up against the wall because they know it costs the insurance company less to settle than to fight even a frivolous lawsuit.

Then why are perscriptions still handwritten, and drug interactions/overmedication still one of the highest causes of death in the US? I recall a story of some Indian quack with a licence who kept jumping states that had something like 50 operating room deaths to his name. That puts Dahmer to shame.

-Is the legal system? The insurance system? Is it by design? -- Um, no. I guess the legal system is addressed in the section above but malpractice insurance has little to do with medicare reimbursement rates, except for the fact that they factor into the physicians overhead, but that is the same whether you accept medicare or private insurance. The medicare rate is still much less.

McDonalds forgot to tell you milkshakes are now made with liquid nitrogen? Oh well.
I agree with frivolous tort reform to a point, but even if the victim doesn't profit, the violator still gets punished. Don't you agree with the law acting as a vindicator?

[john70t]

quote:"I printed that figure in large type hoping it would sear into your brain. Seven percent. That's the percentage of the national health care expenditure that goes to physicians"
-But how 'bout them regular Maui meetings paid for by Phizer to demonstrate the benefits of new product x? Are they myths, or the only survivable option available?

I agree that a hardworking honest physician is at a severe disadvantage with the current system, and spends most his/her time with paper forms instead of bipedal.
That's why there's a severe shortage of physicians, with the older independants optioning for early retirement than deal with b.s.

Granny is a gone'r for sure. Say it together: "bye-bye, tough *****."

[Moses]

Originally posted by john70t

-But how 'bout them regular Maui meetings paid for by Phizer to demonstrate the benefits of new product x? Are they myths, or the only survivable option available?

[/B]

Illegal. No trips to Maui. A drug company is allowed to conduct an educational meeting at a local restaurant where (free) food is served, but the physician may not bring a guest.

[artplumber]

Worst thing that ever happened to medical care was MEDICARE (or insurance in general).

Why? Before insurance, patients had to pay as they went. This means more money in the system and patients who aren't directly responsible for their own care so they don't take care of themselves.

It's funny how people get sticker shock if they see a physician and had to pay $200 for a new patient eval where the doctor actually talks to them for an hour, but are willing to pony up $500 vet bills for 15 minutes of exam (the patient can't talk) and a few meds...BTW ethical docs don't sell the drugs they are prescribing.

The "huge number" of med interactions resulting in patient problems are hype IMHO. They happen, but not to the extent that the headline seekers would have the general public believe.

And... there were and are unethical docs out there. Travel has become illegal, but that happened fairly recently. It's funny that those raising the stink about it (your ethical congresspersons) still haven't outlawed that kind of relationship for themselves - Abramhoff etc. One part of these supposed "perks" is completely bunk however, and that is that a huge $ amount of questionable "perks" to physicians are samples of drugs that we give to patients. I guess "my samples must make my practice better than Dr Smith's (my samples are better)".

[artplumber]

Originally posted by coloradoporsche
I am not a fan of socialized medicine, but I do need to defend England here...

I was on vacation in London about 8 years ago and developed a strange and "symptom" that I wanted to have checked out. Anyway, I walked into a hospital, was sent to a specialist in the same building, got treated free of charge, and went on my way without so much as signing my initials anywhere.

It was the most hassle-free medical experience of my life.

They get to bill the US, or your insurance company knowing that they will get full payment. You think they didn't know who you were? - Mr Ahhh....Smith. What name shall I put on the blood work/xray/....

[Dixie]

Why the different treatment for the two patients?

Dogs do not sue.
Dogs are not lawyers.
Dogs do not see the legal system as a lotto game.