+1 Todd. Thank you.

This thread is nothing more than a complaint against those who defend America and her President during wartime...nothing more.

Censorship sucks.
If you don't like it, don't read it, or certainly don't reply to it.
Automotive, economics, technical, and business stuff appeal to me
Political and religious debate, not so much. I just don't open those.

I, for one, learn A LOT on the OT forum. Differing positions and opinions help me learn more than I would if we were all of the same cloth. Two biases generally give you BOTH SIDES of any given topic. Better than the media, I say.

Keep it open and free-flowing ..... but eliminate the personal attacks and unnecessary foul language.

E

PBBBTTT MULLL.....I think GW is a Good President in spite of everything...and I generally just can't stand the whining Liberals who would burn their own house down to get their way...

Funny,

If ever there was a thread that proved beyond argument the point of the original post, this is it.

Here's an interesting link from the Wayback Machine dated early 2004. Note the varied and interesting OT post topics - lots of car-related stuff. The political crap was just starting to take hold back then (only TWO Bush-bashing threads :eek: ) How things change.

http://web.archive.org/web/20040215093211/http://forums.pelicanparts.com/forumdisplay.php?forumid=31

Agreed. If you pay attention you will see how I (given I am surely a target of this thread) NEVER engage in personal attacks. They are regularly hurled at me but I seldom respond. I won't say never, because I would lie, but I let 95% of the slanders and insults roll right off my back.

Given the above is true, I don't mind. My skin is thick and I would still bend over backwards (in a hetero way) for the most venomous lefty here on board...I doubt highly the same could be said if I were in trouble.

I get bent at liberals attacking our soldiers and their President, therefore the morale of the troops, when they are in harm's way...This encourages the enemy and creates domestic intranquility...This pisses me off and I WILL let you know it does...I will NOT stand idly by as the Democrat vietnamize Iraq.

Even when there is an attempt by a moderator to get some meaningful dialog, the worst trolls trot out their political agenda and blame things on others and question motives.

Why?

I enjoy an exchange of divergent views. I do not enjoy simple casting of blame on others by those with a penchant of showing "rightous indignation" who cannot or will not admit their own culpability or faults.

I also object to "garbage dumping", defined as going way back, finding an obscure posting and then accusing the provious poster with "Well, back then you said...." It is non productive and irrelevant in most cases.

Let's exchange ideas rather than insults for a change. With the insults, no one's mind is changed, and in fact escalation sets in.

The worst is when you make a post about a serious issue...and then, some pompous ass who disagrees with you (and has no reasonable argument) attempts to psychoanalyze you and never even addresses the issue...because obviously you could not be in your right mind if you do not agree with them.

I mostly agree with Fint..but still think he is a DOD Whack job...

I have heard this speech before.....it was in the movie Animal House...

The vitriol is exactly why I rarely post here or even bother to read most threads. I have posted OT on prostate cancer, something I am knowledgeable about, an intriguing starter about WWII that had some good discussion, one about $5/day food planning and few others. I’ll guess 10 out of 4200 posts - ~0.2%.

I enjoy a good argument. I’m usually willing to argue either side. The argument doesn’t have to follow my personal views and opinions. I can separate them. The argument certainly doesn’t have to sink to the levels here. A good argument can stand on its own.

I agree, enforce the rules.

Many have posted about the 911Technical Forum’s wonderful politeness. Why can’t that be true of OT? If someone wants rancor, there are plenty of sites on the internet to choose from.

Best,
Grady

Hey Curt, How'd you do that? There are some specific dates that I would like to retrieve. FWIW, the level of civility/rancor reflected on this board mirrors the general tone of the country and the world. America has never been more divided along political lines than it is under the present "leadership", an AP article today states that the division exceeds the wordt periods of the Viet Nam war. Unbelievable. :rolleyes:

The worst weeks before this on the board were immediately after 9/11/01 when emotions were at a boil and facts were scarce, and after Reagan's death which was a real camp-splitter on a national level. This week is about the bleakest one in my lifetime for anyone who values peace and diplomacy over short-sighted wars. Face it, this will go down as one cruel summer.

I agree. It is "unbelievable." It is a battle between a leadership that is steadfast in principle and a group that will say or do anything to oppose them. Clearly the Anti-American crowd has been so successful because they have refined the techniques it developed during the Vietnam war They make great use of the internet, practically own the media.and have the backing of almost an entire major political party..

D-Day: War's over, man. Wormer dropped the big one.
Bluto: Over? Did you say "over"? Nothing is over until we decide it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no!
Otter: Germans?
Boon: Forget it, he's rolling.
Bluto: And it ain't over now. 'Cause when the goin' gets tough...
[thinks hard]
Bluto: the tough get goin'! Who's with me? Let's go!
[runs out, alone; then returns]
Bluto: What the fück happened to the Delta I used to know? Where's the spirit? Where's the guts, huh? "Ooh, we're afraid to go with you Bluto, we might get in trouble." Well just kiss my ass from now on! Not me! I'm not gonna take this. Wormer, he's a dead man! Marmalard, dead! Niedermeyer...
Otter: Dead! Bluto's right. Psychotic, but absolutely right. We gotta take these bastards. Now we could do it with conventional weapons that could take years and cost millions of lives. No, I think we have to go all out. I think that this situation absolutely requires a really futile and stupid gesture be done on somebody's part.
Bluto: We're just the guys to do it.
D-Day: Let's do it.
Bluto: LET'S DO IT!

Bryan it was like the one Otter gave before the Frat House Disciplinary Council ....Where not going to stand here and let you bash America....

quote:"it is become a cottage industry, hate, the likes that we have never been guilty of in the conservative movement." -ummm, Clinton?

The Hutu Bushies watch for the signal to start, and the rest of the world vultures stare. Even Rome fell, and not by chance..

Speeder it isn't the"PRESENT LEADERSHIP" that is being divisive... its the Political Party that is outa power...the Democrats... wanta be back in the Trough of the Public Treasury at any cost. The Dems are criticizing the Admin for everything they do, without realizing they are lighting their own house on fire.

If U want a shot at the glass of reality...We have a bureaucracy that is mired in proceedure as how to wage a war...this is all fine and good for a conventional war with two powers squaring off in the ring of battle..but we are trying to use a rigid Bureaucractic culture to combat an Amorphic Foe ...the two systems are athema to each other...

The world is beocming more chaotic by the moment ...but remember what I said your damed if you do and damed if you don't in the Middle East...there is no right course of action...the place has ALWAYS been a can of worms that every previous administration has avoided dealing with like the plague. Now Bush is taking the bull by the horns and trying to wrestle with it, to make some kind of sense out of it to protect the SUV Standard of Living in the USA.

As a Burteaucrat one has to fill out the forms in triplicate, while your doing that Abdul el Kabomb has slipped by U carrying a thermo Nucklear device...

Both political factions are talking over each other now, and neither is listening nor paying attention to the damage being done. Our enemies and allies are beoccming aware that we are becoming impotent because of the divisivness.

If this continues the next President maybe an Isolationist, and the world will truly devolve into chaos without the biggest boy on the block bringing some order or leadership to the world. It may also happen that to save the stability of the US economic system..global economy...for the GOOD of us ALL... a Dicatorship will be established...on a presumably temporary basis....simply said once that happens there is NO GOING BACK...so boyz and girls keep it up....and reap the whirlwind..

And thats why I commented....They know no what they do....

Great post Todd.

Of course the master-baiters will object the loudest.

as always the trolls have come forward throwing politics into the mix when the point was to please throttle things back, not to censor topics per se but just to try and stop the personal attacks.

Funny Todd....how the folks with similar politics to you have posted their encouragement (you go girl!)...they assume that you do not have character or judgement enough to act fairly and that you seek to ban the more conservative side of the argument (selective enforcement)...when it is they (kings of the personal attack and name calling) that you apparently refer to...If you actually enforced the rules strictly and equally, they would be some of the first to go. Please do enforce the rules...but do so fairly.

I don't think so. I think that the anonymity of the internet allows people to be vicious without repercusions. People are still civil face-to-face.

Geezus how fking paranoid do U fking Conservatives have to be...there are plenty of whacko Liberals who U could hit on the head with a shovel and still not make a dent....that rant and rave at the full moon on this Board...

And all U Conservatives have to do is look around and read what I post to know I ain't no mamby pamby scummy Liberal...yech...

Have you watched CNN or Fox lately????

Last night on O'reilly his surrogate had the Democrats Director of Public something or other on and all she could do was attack Bush...she never really answered the question posed to her...it was just a matter of talking over...if you talk loud enough and long enough it must be true...

Likewise, Fint. You and Mul do a great job of giving Republicans a bad name.

If you can't have a civil debate on a topic, it's irrelevant what side of the aisle you sit on. There's trolls on both sides, both are equally culpable. THAT's the point of this thread.

Both Left and Right would make things a hell of a lot nicer for the rest of the folks here by learning four simple words:

"We agree to disagree."

I don't recall one anti-Clinton sticker...I have seen thousands of W crossed out stickers...1,000s!

This thread is no different from all the rest. Someone should close this one as well. It's the same people perpetuating this discussion, why not just let the subject die and stop passing hollow messages back and forth. The problem has no solution other than just having a little more respect for other folks and their opinions.

Ironic isn't it?

It's like self-fulfilling prophecy or something. Moths to a flame.

Maybe I'll join a DeLorean or 240z forum. I don't own either, but *shrug* I'm sure it'll work out fine. :rolleyes:

I barely own a Porsche. I mean, a 944, I know. Okay, woohoo. But at least I'm not some random guy that camps out and acts like I own the place. For some reason, I just don't think that would fly at most (moderated) forums.

Yes, yes it is, that did not even sort of work, though I must confess I would have been more surprised if it generated a well reasoned discussion. :(

People are rude and opinionated, some of them anyway. This place is like real life, only more so for some people.

Well join whatever you like, Bryan. No one's stopping you.

You are also a visitor here. You don't own this website, you don't do the labor to keep this website running or pay someone to do it. You do nothing to keep this business going. It is not up to you who can or cannot visit Wayne's house.

If you feel so strongly about it, create your own Porsche website, buy the servers, do the website developing, and do the maintenance to keep it running. Then you can dictate who can post on that forum.

Pelican is a private venture and the owners are the one who makes decisions on what takes place here, not you....you are also a guest.

I buy Porsche parts for my the Porsche that I own, so I would venture to say that I contribute more towards the operation of this BBS than a non-Porsche/VW/BMW owner, so I think your argument is totally bogus. It seems to me, this forum's purpose is to give a place for Porsche/VW/BMW owners to congregate.

edit: I realize that this is a public website, so any yahoo can come and sign up for an account. Some people register for an account and spam "free GPS" receivers, others spam with political nonsense. Neither own Porsches, but both are equally as annoying. I think we should stop banning the Free GPS guys, since it would be pretty hard to make a distinction between the two, and rules are pretty much meaningless.

I have sent people to Pelican, bought gift certificates, and have probably seen more Porsches owned by people that post here than you.

It seems to me that you have no right to dictate what a private business owner should do.

cc, you are like, the 911 guys' groupie or something. I don't have a problem with it. In fact, I think it's cute. You're a pretty girl, you fly out to see the 911 guys, maybe play cars a little bit, whatever. That's cool.

Mul and Fastpaste are not pretty girls. Lotsofstatus recognized a problem and opened it up for discussion. That's all this is about. I see the two of them as sources of sooooo many problems around here, but that's just me, and I notice that neither of them seem to have a logical reason for being here.

aside: am I incorrect in thinking fastpat doesn't own a Porsche?

What exactly got your panties in a bunch Bryan...please be specific young man.

I like how you answer a post by Tabs with a dig at Mul and myself...as if it were my post. Such tactics!

I have no problem with a "civil debate"...unfortunately many that post here don't consider it a civil debate unless we agree with you.....alas...it is not me that begins the name calling....I don't believe that I have ever once made a personal post addressing you by name as you just did me. Sorta the pot calling the kettle...don't ya think?