8 Major engine parts = 400HP

[Jims5543]

I roasted my engine. I was in Miami with ambiant around 90°. I made some bad decisions. I put on an uderdrive pully kit for the water pump and it was lsipping bad. It is poorly engineered and caused me a lot of trouble. The belt was slipping. Couple that with a faulty thermostat and an ignorant driver who did not want to pit when the temps climbed.

My Motec data log said I hit 280° I balked and did not belive it. Then I saw the warranty plugs on the side of the engine had melted. They are made of solder. Solder melts between 270-290. So much for not believing the Motec.

So my mechanic tore down the engine. I was sad and happy at the same time. There were some clearence issues that had een present since the last rebuild 3 years ago. Now I know why I had so much blowby. I would expell a quart of oil every 2 hours on the track. Thats the bad news. The good news is it made 330 RWHP at 10 PSI (low boost setting 15 PSI is the high setting) on the dyno after the last rebuild.

I am looking foward to a much stronger engine after this rebuild by a different shop. The guy building the engine is a North Carolina hillbilly that knows rotaries well. He is in one of the following pics.

So here are the 8 parts that make a rotary run:


My housings are warped from the heat. You can see that from the carbon build up. This surface should be very shiney and smooth. Spark plug can bee seen here too.


My mechanic pondering our next move:


Fuel comes in here, this end housing might be shot as well.


Exhaust goes out here to the turbo. Both of my Housings (this is one) are shot as well:



Act Extreme PP custom 6 puck clutch and flywheel? Toast!!



This engine lasted me 3 years wth no problems? I have learned a lot from this tear down and will have a much better engine next go around.

I was hoping to get out of this spending about $2K but it is looking like a lot more now. Especially if I keep with my over build it mentality.

I also broke all my tranny and engine mounts. I need to drive her a little nicer.....

I just have to decide if I want to go all out al la 911teo style of just build it back up.

[stomachmonkey]

I love rotarys.

Really an ingenious design.

What I loved best about my RX7 was the ability to change the oil w/out getting under the car.

[Jims5543]

Felix Wankel designed the Motor. NSA and Mazda were the first to make a run at producing them.

Chevy bought rites but chickened out with the new emmisions laws of '74. The Monza was supposed to be rotary powered. There are Covette prototypes with mid-engine 4 rotor engines in them as well.

I love this car. It suprises eveyone on the track. Non-turbo rotaries are blah. Add a turbo to it and watch out.

[stomachmonkey]

MB actually had it as well, they stuck it into the C111.

Daimler is the main supporter of Wankel's research institute, TES.

I used to hang out at Autotrix in Freeport NY. Mazda tuner specialists.

One of the founders was later responsible for that 10th anniversary edition that set a speed record in Bonneville.

I took mine for an unplanned Dukes o Hazzard flight one day. End of that car.

Scott

[kach22i]

Bummer, how long before it's put back together?

[TerryBPP]

Sorry to hear it. Is the housing salvageable? Can you increase your bore on a rotary?

I'm sure we will be seeing a 450hp monster from you soon.

[Jims5543]

I am in no hurry to get her back together. I usually take the summer off from DE's and wait for the cooler Winter months.

I usually Autocross a few events during the summer I'll just skip that.

Terry, you cannot do anything to increase the bore of a rotary. You can modify the intake and exhaust ports and thats about it. Its a 1.3 liter engine. There are 3 Rotor engines called 20B's and they are 2 liter engines. I am swapping on that turbo I offered you it will get me more into the 450 RWHP range at 15PSI and 360RWHP at 10 PSI. I am very excited about the power potential of this engine when it is built back up right.

This is my dilemna. I was thinking of lightening the rotating assembly. I can buy lightened rotors (think pistons) the stocks are 9.7 lbs and the lightened are 8.7 lbs. I can take 2 lbs of rotating mass out of my engine. Couple that with a lightened flywheel that will go from 19 lbs to 11 lbs and this should be a really quick revving motor. The problem is the Rotors cost $2100. Ouch!!

[Eli at Pelican Parts]

Originally posted by Jim Cesiro
Felix Wankel designed the Motor. NSA and Mazda were the first to make a run at producing them.

Chevy bought rites but chickened out with the new emmisions laws of '74. The Monza was supposed to be rotary powered. There are Covette prototypes with mid-engine 4 rotor engines in them as well.

I love this car. It suprises eveyone on the track. Non-turbo rotaries are blah. Add a turbo to it and watch out.

Sorry Jim, I can't agree with you on that last statement. I've owned an RX2, RX3, seven 1st Generations, two second gens Turbos and one third gen Twin Turbo and grew up racing these things on the streets "back in the days".......

In our team we had 1 10-sec all motor in our crew running a P-port which pretty much is a direct port into the rotor housing as apposed to your side housings as seen in the photos in this post. Of course it was fed with a 51 IDA stack.

Good Luck on the rebuild..... I toasted two rotary engines both 13B motors "over-boost" & "running-lean"......

-Eli

[Eli at Pelican Parts]

Originally posted by Jim Cesiro

Have you tried Mazda Trix?

They are located in Signal Hill California.......

-Eli

[Jims5543]

Originally posted by Eli at Pelican Parts
Sorry Jim, I can't agree with you on that last statement. I've owned an RX2, RX3, seven 1st Generations, two second gens Turbos and one third gen Twin Turbo and grew up racing these things on the streets "back in the days".......

In our team we had 1 10-sec all motor in our crew running a P-port which pretty much is a direct port into the rotor housing as apposed to your side housings as seen in the photos in this post. Of course it was fed with a 51 IDA stack.

Good Luck on the rebuild..... I toasted two rotary engines both 13B motors "over-boost" & "running-lean"......

-Eli

Yeah, I agree with you to an extent. There are fast N/A Rotaries, Jesus Padilla is running all motor and in the 10's. I was talking more about road racing. Non-turbo rotaries tend to be really low on torque and have to dependf a lot on momentum.

I had a guy at the last DE I was at in a ITS RX-7 trying to chase me down. He might have had a couple of hundred pounds on me but once I let off the brakes any advantage he had was gone. I could turn every but as good as him if not better and then once the gas pedal hit the floor. He disapeared. The best part? I have a full interior complete with A/c and Bazooka tube and a license plate on the back.

I love this car. If I can have an engine last me 3 years with all this abuse I am happy.

[Eli at Pelican Parts]

Yah, it's amazing of how one could extract so much power of a 1.2 or even better a 1.3...... I have buddy who is an original owner of an R100 all stock dual dist. I'm first in line when he is ready to sell if his son (good friend of mine) doesn't take it.......

20B & 13G are way too much $$$$, you would need to make some real money by driving in order for it to be worth it..... IMO

-Eli

[Jims5543]

The new rage is to swap a 20B into FC's and FD's. Typical output is in the 550-750HP range. I know 3 people who are making these swaps. Everyone asks me whyI dont do it. I do not want the extra weight in the front. The car is perfectly balanced I am not going to screw that up. I do not need 700HP, 500HP is enough to kill me.

[Eli at Pelican Parts]

Originally posted by Jim Cesiro
New new rage is to swap a 20B into FC's and FD's. Typical output is in the 550-750HP range. I know 3 people who are making these swaps. Everyone asks me whyI dont do it. I do not want the extra weight in the front. The car is perfectly balanced I am not going to screw that up. I do not need 700HP, 500HP is enough to kill me.

I hear you...... I was putting out 350 on the FD3s with up to 15 pounds..... Funny thing was when I blew the motor I was able to drive it home doing 80 on one rotor......

-Eli

[David]

We run a 20B peripheral port NA 3 rotor in an EM autocross car. We keep the engine as cool as possible. Big aluminum radiator and big oil cooler. And that's running only a minute at a time, I would imagine it's even more important to keep it cool on the street.

[Eli at Pelican Parts]

Originally posted by 125shifter
We run a 20B peripheral port NA 3 rotor in an EM autocross car. We keep the engine as cool as possible. Big aluminum radiator and big oil cooler. And that's running only a minute at a time, I would imagine it's even more important to keep it cool on the street.

It's the first upgrade when purchasing any rotary... Radiator, new water pump and oil cooling upgrade especially the oil (front mount) on the 1st gens.

-Eli

[Jims5543]

Originally posted by Eli at Pelican Parts
Have you tried Mazda Trix?

They are located in Signal Hill California.......

-Eli

I will probably be buying most of my parts directly through Mazda. I am sure you know about the Mazdaspeed program.

The shopping list is getting extensive so I will have to suffice with just a good strong build up and no fancy stuff.

125 - I have an oversized aluminum radiator. The second Gen RX-7's are known for having really good oil coolers.

Under normal circumstances I can keep the engine temp in the 160-180 range. I was a numbskull and didn't want to get off the track.

Even when I decided to pull into the pits and was on a cool down lap a GT3 passed me and I had to fight myself not to give chase. I was having too much fun that day.

[David]

Originally posted by Jim Cesiro

Under normal circumstances I can keep the engine temp in the 160-180 range. I was a numbskull and didn't want to get off the track.

Even when I decided to pull into the pits and was on a cool down lap a GT3 passed me and I had to fight myself not to give chase. I was having too much fun that day.

I know the feeling. I've trashed many a kart engine thinking, what damage could another lap do. Knowing full well exactly what it'll do.

[Mr Beau]

Any thoughts on the LS1 swaps that people are doing? I realize that it is somewhat sacreligeous, but I'm curious how the cars turn out afterwards.

[Jims5543]

Originally posted by Mr Beau
Any thoughts on the LS1 swaps that people are doing? I realize that it is somewhat sacreligeous, but I'm curious how the cars turn out afterwards.

They are not worth the money IMHO unless you are content with stock power even then a 400HP LS1 is not cheap. Buying a 350HP LS! and tweeking it to make 400-500 HP is not cheap.

Back up a second. I ran my engine at 280° on the track for countless laps and then drove it to my mechanics to be tore down, still running strong. What other engine can do that?

Once rebuilt (After 3 years of dominating AX and terrorizing everything on the track) it will be pumping out 360 to the wheels with low boost and 460 to the wheels (over 500HP) with high boost. Why would I want a LS1?

BTW- here it is on the track overheating with low compression. This video was taken 20 engine minutes before I did a compression test and found it to be blown.
http://www.cesirofilms.com/bumpermount.wmv

[Mr Beau]

Jim,

Don't get me wrong--I'm not suggesting that you drop in an LS1. I've just heard some of some people doing the swap and was curious as to your thoughts.

I think your thoughts are pretty clear now. :-)