So, umm, if I may ask, what were the tools you were referring to then that would be required to perform field maintenance on an AR15/M16?

And, ummm, what kind of Phillips screw driver are you thinking of that would remove these buffer assembly screws on an HK91?
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1154978228.jpg

Very impressive that you have a 4 point! However, I am less than impressed by all your FACTUAL errors concerning the main topics of this posts: M16, HK91, etc.

And us FAL owners know you don't need to clean 'em - just crank the gas port open another notch or two... :)

See the Legend of Ol' Dirty - http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=68486&perpage=30&pagenumbe r=1

i stand corrected on the phillips screw on the buffer! my apology. as for your PSG1 trigger assembly what is the difference btwn cleaning my HK-91 trigger assembly and yours? yours is set trigger mine isnt. no reason to ever take apart to clean with exception of (1) philips screw on grip. compressed air and or field brush and its clean.

tools for taking apart an M-16 down to bare bones havent a clue! reason ..................i havent got over how miserable they feed ammunition and thats over 20 years! why would i want to take apart a weapon that doesnt shoot correctly in the first place!!!! and it hasnt been just one weapon. it has been a plethora of various mfgs. of AR-15's. and VERY EXPENSIVE ONES ALSO!

i cannot begin to tell you how many times various AR-15's have failed to go bang amongst my friends. you can not give one of them to me. nor would i carry one into battle. i have no desire to spend my day at the range, taking apart my friends AR-15's when they jam, fail to extract, etc.

with the 90 series of HK's you have sight assemblys(already in place on barrel, barrel assy, receiver assy and buffer assy. 4 components. barrel gets clean w/nazi rosary. trigger group needs no tools to clean in the field. receiver assy ie. bolt can be taken apart by hand down to firing pin and spring . if your rollers are bad, time for the armorer. if you manage to allow mechanism to slam shut you will be in for a wild time getting apart if you dont know the trick(i do and i'm not telling). buffer assy my mistake -straight screw head(added nylon buffer thats it, on all of them). how many times has anything failed on your HK???? has your buffer every taken a dump? your trigger? it better not its a PSG1! your rollers? firing pin or spring?

i havent a clue how many rounds i have shot thru my HK's. all i know is its ALOT! and not ONE SINGLE JAM -MISFIRE-EXTRACTION PROBLEM EVER!. i have both stocks and neither buffer has ever given me a lick of problems w/exception of nylon piece which was worn. it should be! i shoot it ALOT! and it has eaten alot of surplus ball ammo that was tarnished, rusted,corroded,old,etc.

now to add insult to my bimmer buddy, last deer season he was driving to camp from phx and had entered hunt area. loaded 5 rd legal clip into AR-15 with his reloads. none in barrel(actually legal in this state to carry 1 in pipe in vehicle-kinda unsafe IMHO-DUH). anyway sees school/pack/convoy/swarm/pod/herd of deer. gets out of vehicle, crosses roadway and is legal to fire at deer.racks round in, takes aim and click....................NO BANG! just click ! what can i say ???? i have heard read and been present for one TOO MANY problems with that weapons system to ever hunt with let alone stake my life on!

now back to the tools to disassemble in the field. for Hk's a straight screwdriver,nazi rosary cleaning chain, chamber brush,swabs,sight tool. thats it!

please entertain me today, and tell me all the tools you need to take apart an AR-15. i will learn something despite my animosity towards this weapon.

another interesting fact from afghanistan. GI's complaining about knockdown power of the .223 when taliban are wearing heavy jackets due to high-altitude fighting. now why in the name of ALLAH would you use a pip squeek round(.223 fast/tumbling) at great distance to fight a war????? FUNNY HOW SPRINGFIELD IS OVERWHELMED WITH ORDERS FOR SOCOMS in .308???????? HMMMMMM!

and YET ANOTHER FUN FACTOID! M-14's were detuned from full auto to semi-auto due to lack of hits on target. M-14 was/ has been battle tested with NO FLAWS whatsover! please explain to me WHY after how many decades we are still dealing with a weapons system that does not do the job in the BALLISTIC DEPT> let alone the MECHANICAL DEPT????????????

give me an HK/SPRINGFIELD/FN/STEYR/SIG/GALIL anyday over a M-16/AR-15 POS!one US soldier killed due to a faulty/problematic weapons system is one too many. we are the greatest nation on the planet! and the dumbest when it comes to weapons procurement regarding the M-16. and yes you can start the BLAME GAME ON McNAMARA!

by the way ewave................have you ever taken apart the bolt assy on your HK? reply back if it locks up on you. the secret is beyond simple..................its actually brilliant beyond words! silly germans! and no its not listed/described in owners manual.

RE: AR-15 / M-16
I have used an M-16 while in the military. It was an A-1 series. It was wonderful. It never gave me any trouble, even on FA, and allowed me to score high on every proficiency drill.
I have owned a semi-auto A-2 heavy barrel AR15. It sucked balls... meaning, it jammed a LOT. A WHOLE LOT.

I don't know if it was a difference between A1/ A2, or if it was a difference between "well used" and "new", or if it was a difference in brands.

I do know that neither my G3, my FN, or my AK have ever given me the trouble that the AR did.

RE: make your own
Yes, Pat, you DO have to file some paperwork.

27 CFR §479.62 Application to make.
No person shall make a firearm unless the person has filed with the Director a written application on Form 1 (Firearms), Application to Make and Register a Firearm, in duplicate, executed under the penalties of perjury, to make and register the firearm and has received the approval of the Director to make the firearm which approval shall effectuate registration of the weapon to the applicant.

See also 26 U.S.C. 5822

excellant article. that hurt my eyes to look at that chamber, kinda like seeing a car wreck w/a p-car involved. YUK! i'm sure they will have all sorts of giggles cleaning it...............if they ever do!

Charles, first you say:

Then you admit that perhaps this isn't true:

There are NO TOOLS REQUIRED. Photo is of AR15 rifle taken apart using just hands.

As per your request. Here is a photo of my disassembled AR15, 1965 vintage serial number SP04309. No tools required. I also took apart the trigger assembly, though this is NOT recommended during a field strip. The firing pin is used to push out the pins holding in the trigger parts. To separate the upper and lower receivers, (because this weapon is from 1965), I had to use a screw driver to unscrew a pin. Newer version have a captive push pin there, like in the rear of the receiver. The two halves do not need to be separated for a field strip or cleaning. I took them apart for the photo, and to show what you can disassemble without tools on a modern AR15/M16. Also a M16 has an auto sear that is held in place by a third removable pin. Of course this AR15 does not have the auto sear. (I've got a more modern AR15 that was converted to full auto, but it is filthy right now, and I didn't want to get dirty taking it apart.)


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1154985888.jpg

I've completely disassembled my HK91, including the OLD trigger Assembly (POS) before I bought the replacement PSG1 for $450. And putting together the roller bolt assembly was a real PITA. No fun at all. And I do remember having problems at first when I put it together, because I was in the locked, or closed cycle, and it wasn't going to slide back into the weapon that way. I remember rotating and pulling on it. Not sure if that is the "trick" you are talking about.

The German HK91 is a beautifully made weapon. They can not be imported into the USA anymore. Mine is in mint condition, and I only fired it about 100 times when I first bought it. Since then it has been sitting in my gun safe. I've got a POS CETME HK91 clone that I use when I want to fire 308 tracers. It's an ugly poorly made sub $500 rifle. It is used and unloved.

I enjoy shooting my AR15 and the full auto conversions. Call me a wimp, but the recoil of the HK91 gets kind of hard on my shoulder after 500+ shots... And full auto on one of this is not pleasant at all. (For me anyway).

a HA you used a screwdriver! LOL hmmmm how many machined parts vs stamped parts? hmm the more machined parts more room for error. the more stamped parts the less room for error.

my entire deal here is you can get to the firing pin on an hk easier than any other weapon with no tools. you have extended this to a full break down of weapon. which is fine. i have sat watching flies while my buddy takes his apart because of feed/extraction problems. now when in the world is a buffer assy on any hk going to fail? 9mm .223, .308??? . if the weapon was refurbed by armorer, why would you take apart in field? so then why do you need straight screwdriver? i have actually NEVER heard of any buffer problems in any of the 4 calibers mentioned built by hk in the 90 series. answer me please why would you ever think of removing an hk barrel in the field? not because of mud. hk has proved that by their videos of barrels stuffed with mud and actions stuffed with mud, and THEY STILL CONTINUE TO SHOOT! they have even proven their barrel knowledge and quality on their USP pistols by SQUIBBING a round on purpose and firing another round into while both rounds clear barrel with slight bulge in barrel(dont try this at home)!

im impressed by your timely photos but the fact remains the same. they dont go bang every time and alot of people have died because of it! your trying to tell me that i dont know what im talking about to do complete teardown of weapon. now why do they sell m-16/ar-15 armorer's tool kit?????? why is there this 30 year controversy over a low bid weapon that COLT has sold to FN? there has NEVER BEEN ANY CONTROVERSY EVER over HK's /FN's/STEYR's/SIGS/GALILS except by the receiving side! ie. "when is it going to stop???"

to even compare an M-16 to any of the above, especially after the perfect article on the INSANE BEFOULMENT OF THE FN is truly comical. i appreciate your photos, and i have learned some more about something that i just cant accept due to its ongoing controversy.

now why did they have to add a forward assist to the m-16? hmmmmmmmmmm! why werent the receivers hard chromed?

why did hk install forward assist on PSG1? not because they had problems, but to avoid the sound of racking back action and alerting bad guys to ones position!

the bottom line is its an extremely un-fail safe weapon that needs constant maint. and care. note how GI's were carrying them in zip-lock bags to avoid fine powder sand fouling actions during both dezert wars. i live in fine powder sand and the wind blows it around all the time. i have no problems with the hks or springfields here and im not under combat conditions. my buddies damn near have to have an INTEL cleanroom to shoot theirs !

COURT MARTIAL ME-KEEL HAUL ME! you cant give them to me...........EVER! kinda like a YUGO! i have had too many trips with buddies and they dont go bang and we play once again, the "WHY DOESNT IT GO BANG THEORY GAME" which really has gotten old. kinda like taking a ratted out POS bultaco on a 150 mile ride with brand new KTM's and HONDA XR's.

was just about to fly this when i got yours. HERES THE DRILL FOR WHEN YOU HAVE PIECES SLAM TOGETHER!

take entire assy. put back together(yes it will be slammed shut). take assy and turn upside down and place in receiver backwards! YES BACKWARDS-ie. OPPOSITE OF HOW IT NORMALLY GOES TOGETHER AND SLAM IT by the TUBE! one fairly easy slam will release pieces, then you assemble as you normally do. this was taught to me by an HK schooled armorer. TOO SIMPLE HUH????

with that few of rounds thru your hk and watching the prices you have a nice piece. my buddy bought his when they were $500 bucks(dating ourselves) i bought mine with mega clips/bayonet,sling,hensolt surplus scope(tossed it for leupold), quick detach scope mt and retracting stock for a $1000. many many moons ago.

Mine never jams, and it's easy to field strip.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1154996628.jpg

Since you have never replaced a firing pin on an AR15, how do you know this is true?

I guarantee you I could swap out an AR15/M16 firing pin faster than you can on your HK91, using no tools. Just about any person farmiliar with an AR15/M16 could.

Surly one of your friends who own an AR15 can show you how easy and fast this is to do on an AR15.

Charles, you seem like a nice intelligent person, but you sure appear to me to be completely misinformed on many AR15/M16 and HK91 issues. I read your posts and I think- That's not true, That's not true, That's not true... So I call you out, and show you how you are wrong on so many of your claims.

That regulation has been nullified via court decision. The firearm must enter commerce to be under that regulation now. Keep in mind that I'm talking about a semi-auto firearm here, not automatic nor am I talking about state laws. Just federal.

As he stated, the M16A1 and all subsequent rifles and AR-154's don't need the screwdriver, they have a push pin for disassembly. Ewave is quite right, there are few firearms as easily disassembled than an M16/AR-15.

I was range safety NCO for six years running with my Army unit, and spent many hours with Breakfree and the "toothbrush" cleaning them or supervising their cleaning after range fire training.

Charles,

Thanks for placing your ad. I'll take the MP5SD for $1820 and the MP5K for $1400. In fact, maybe I ought to just buy a dozen of each at that price:)

Rob

This is a pretty interesting thread. I probably should skip it to prevent lack of focus on other things.

ewave did you try the trick? what occurs is assy hits inside receiver and pushes the pieces apart. then all you do is reassemble as you normally would. i appreciate the fact you called me on the carpet on the AR-15. i dont stand my ground if im proved wrong. but please if your son or daughter were possibly going into the military would you want them to carry an M-16???? 30+years of problems/fixes changes. no other weapons system ever adopted has been thru this.

after quizzing my buddy on his, he admitted to buying american arms out of phx. ar-15's. he also admitted "upgrading certain parts".

if anything i have learned over the years is to buy the real mccoy part. have played the aftermarket clip game with m-1 carbines,m-14, hk-91,94, and a host of semi-auto pistols. all with poor results. even with 10-22's. im sure the parts game can keep one guessing alot also.

there is a far cry difference btwn shooting at the range with its sterile atmosphere, out hunting in the elements, and COMBAT!

the arguement held about rounds carried for a .308 and more rounds carried for the .223 does not lend itself to accurate shooting. ie. full auto. when your life is on the line, 99.99999% of the time it will be "SPRAY AND PRAY" and hope like hell you hit something.

im sure fast pat as a range officer has some real funny and downright real scary stories from the range. what we have noticed no matter who the mfg. of the weapon is at the range is a general feeling of being superman when on FULL AUTO. when we go out to targets its always fun to see the lack of hits made on target.

if you look back on history, there were the assault troops with full autos, the rifleman with bolt or semi-auto, and then machine gunners. somewhere along the way, and i suspect it occurred with the m-1 carbine which was supposed to take the place of the 1911,.45 grease gun, .45 tommy gun and the m-1 garand. that we (U.S.) felt that "ONE GUN" can do it all. from the financial side this makes sense. from the reality side its the furthest thing from the truth.

when the switch was made in vietnam from m-14 to m-16, there was a huge amount of the "RESIST CHANGE"(RC FACTOR), with its obvious backlash that still continues today. we have two wars going both in different climates. one is flour sand and hot most of the year, the other cold muddy and dusty. i cant conceive of having to zip-lock my weapon because of the elements and still survive an ambush.

the M-16 was bought by our gov't for a number of the wrong reasons. it wasnt tested enough, it was pushed thru by govt who wanted the jobs that would follow, and it was the cheap fix to solve a complex problem. please follow the development of the BERETTA M-9, and how we demanded that a BERETTA factory be built in the U.S. for our production. that testing is a whole story in itself. mindset was "you get more rounds with a 9mm, and maybe the soldier will hit something" instead of a tried and true and battle tested .45. funny how that one went down.

the U.S. is so prideful of the "made in the U.S.A. sticker" on its military weapons that it has gotten in the way of sound reasoning. other countries have now surpassed our abilities to make a quality weapon and we cant admit it.(ie. " i want those jobs, in my congressional district".)

no one weapon will ever solve the complex battle field. from door to door fighting, rooftop to rooftop, high ground to low ground, long range. every weapon has its good points and bad points. sure if i was going door to door i would want a light full auto w/enough power to shoot thru walls. if i was in a trench, i would want the most powerful long range round possible. if i was a tunnel rat, i would want a powerful pistol. if i was a POW guard i would want the maximum capacity magazine i could have. just with those examples you can see a need for different weapons.

i think the next round of miltary weapons testing is going to surprise alot of people that subscribe to the "made in the U.S.A." mindset. not that i am not prideful, but im open minded enough and enjoy out of the box thinking. and thats something HK has surpassed everyone on. a note here.........they were the original makers of the "plastic pistol" with the VP-70Z. NOT GLOCK! also check out their new rifles and pistols that even FN hasnt been able to replicate. this next round of testing is going to put the hurt on companies that try to "fine tune" an old design, instead of putting money into R&D.

all i'm saying here, if it doesnt go "BANG" the first time and "EVERYTIME" we have not put our best efforts to protect our military. and that could mean a body bag, of our sons or daughters or neighbors that none of us EVER WANT TO SEE.

yeah check out the date on the HK ad and the prices. today the 2 best investments you can make are raw land and "BLACK EVIL ASSAULT WEAPONS" in FA or semi-auto. GO FIGURE!

you guys all suck..I had a Bushmaster CAR 15 and they banned guns in New GERMANY here, so I had to give it to my brother...god I loved that gun...I built it from a Bushmaster parts kit and a bushmaster lower...it never jammed, even on old IDF surplus ammo. I hate all you guys...

Actually, I believe Colt lost the contract for M-16's quite awhile ago. I think our current issue examples come from Brazil.

Please, come move to Texas! You can help off set the Californians who keep moving into the state with their Socialistic and Gun Control voting tendencies!

they are made by HK and Barreta in south carolina now...doesn't anyone ever watch "made in america" with John Ratzenberger(cliff Clavin) for go sake?

I would love too..trust me. Wifey says no . Seriously if you want an AR, buy a Bushmaster, they are by far the best ones made. They are the ones that the real US special forces use. Call them and ask, made in Maine. Parts kit is about $550-650, lower is $200 ish...or complete for about a grand.