Toyoto F1 car at Laguna- new track record

[GIBSON]

Zonta took the Toyota F1 car (the current chassis but soon to be replaced by a new chassis just being released) out on track today at Laguna. He went out on Intermediate tires, did one lap and pulled the car back to the pits. The technicians hooked up two lap-tops, read the data, made adjustments and then full race tires were put on the car. He went back out and on his second lap set thet track record at 1:07.5 -- old record was 1:07.75
set by a CHAMP car several years ago. He knows the track well, he won a GT race here in 1997 or 98, can't remember exactly.
So, he will be running tomorrow and Sunday, trying to improve on those times. Should be fun to see what he can do.
I'm sure others will have photos, it was a good day. Lots of Porsche's running.

[450knotOffice]

Man, I am so envious of those of you who can make it. I'm working this whole weekend so I can't make it. I am being teased a couple of times a day though as I fly over the track at about 20,000 feet during descent into San Jose or San Francisco however (I fly for the airlines).

Next year...

[strupgolf]

It's easy to set a track record when it doesn't count. No, no other cars like yours!! The last time I checked, F1 was not racing at Luguna. I wish they were. I think that Ferrari would go 1:06:00. I realy hope that Toyota will someday find the speed to challange for the front row, because it would( with their money) bring the top teams down a little bit. But hey, Indy will again host a F1 in 2007, cant wait.

[450knotOffice]

I'd say if a Champ Car ran a 1:07.75 a few years ago then MS in his current Ferrari would probably run at least a 1:04 or maybe faster. No offense to Champ cars. They just are not even in the same league as F1 cars.

[MOMO3.2]

Scott:

I am an F1 fan too. But, looking over lap times, Helio Castro Neves lapped Laguna Seca in 107.89 back in 2000. Imagine that same chassis & motor setup with even 1/4 the development money that has been thrown at the Toyota 2006 F1 car. Those Champ car motors (the Cosworths) were not even really developed for quite some time.

I know it is apples and oranges. That is part of my point. It is apples and oranges.

Like I stated, I am the original, died in the wool, European racing is king fan. But, I gotta respect the level of performance those Champ Car Teams were getting before the Indy/IRL split. Those boys were on it!

Finally, I am glad to see an F1 car holding the lap record at such a fine track. After all, I was there in person two years ago when Ferrari had their F1 car (was it a 2003 or 04 model?) at Laguna Seca trying for a lap record and falling miserably short. It was embarrasing for Ferrari and for F1 in general. I felt sick.

Mike

[GIBSON]

Given the unfortunate repaving our track received- bumpy and uneven surface- I'd say taking the track record with a car with absolutely no data on that track and having the suspension
beat up by the track surface is pretty incredible. We are looking into what happened during the repaving process to allow for such an uneven surface. We will figure it out and repave before next season.
The F1 Toyota must have been a handful, I think Zonta pulled of
a pretty incredible lap, all things considered. Especially since his times came on the second lap he took.
However, Champ cars having nothing to be ashamed of either.
If you've ever stood close to those cars under braking or hard acceleration, you'll never forget that feeling.
If you are in the area or anywhere close, try to get to Laguna Saturday or Sunday, it will be worth your effort.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

I dunno. . . The new Panoz Champ Car chassis for 2007 looks pretty sweet - and coupled to the Ford-Cosworth engine should be pretty formidable. Not saying it'd beat an F1, but it's going to make for a helluva ride. . .

[Rick964]

Must no tbe that easy, Ferrari tried to set a lap record at Laguna a year or two ago during the Historics and came up a bit short.

http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20040906/FREE/409060710&SearchID=73254243831434

[GIBSON]

Sorry this is so off topic that it had to get moved but here is today's F1 update. Today they had the car repaired (our bumpy track caused the wiring harness to break loose- it's now repaired with lots of zip-ties)- they went out and 4 or 5 laps later set a 1:06.7, a full second under our track record. Very cool. Not sure of the times he turned in the later session this afternoon.
On Sunday they will be turning the traction control off and putting on a show, no pressure to turn times, just entertainment.
Lots of donuts, lighting up the tires down the entire front straight, great entertainment. Come out if you can.

[450knotOffice]

I love all kinds of racing including Champ car and they certainly are exciting to watch and very, very fast. I certainly meant no disrespect toward the series or cars. I've been to quite a few Champ Car races at Long Beach and Portland and have always loved the show.

It's simply a given, however, that an F1 car is considerably more nimble, stops much faster, and acclerates more quickly than a Champ car. Like Mike said, Apples and Oranges. I've seen F1 cars in person and it's just obvious when you watch them that they are on a different level.

Champ Cars have a minimum weight of 1545 pounds, empty. If you were to add in say, Danica Patrick, at maybe 100 pounds, the Champ car would weigh at least 1645 pounds.

F1 cars weigh a minimum of 1323 pounds with the driver, and you know that the F1 teams more than likely get the cars right down to that weight. The difference is over 200 pounds, maybe up to 275 or so. That is at least a 20% increase in weight the Champ car has to carry over a F1 car.

The Cosworth engines of the Champ cars produce about 850 horsepower and the F1 engines produce about 750 these days (last year the F1 V10's were making about 960 horsepower). So, 12% less horsepower is pushing at least 20% less weight around.

Tire technology in F1 is in the stratosphere too so you can imagine the grip those things must produce.

Here's a quote from Wikepedia, the online encyclopedia concerning the difference in lap times when the two series raced on the same track within a few weeks of each other:

" In recent years it has been possible to compare the respective performance of the two series. Since 1978 Formula 1 has made an annual visit to the Circuit de Villeneuve in Montreal . Champ Car added this circuit to their tour in 2002. During the inaugural Champ Car visit in 2002 Cristiano Da Matta won the pole position in the Champ Car race with a lap time of 1:18.959. Several weeks before former Champ Car Champion Juan Pablo Montoya seized P1 in the Formula 1 race with a lap time of 1:12.836."

The F1 car ran a lap over 6 seconds quicker on the same course. 6 seconds!

As for the Ferrari F1 car that failed to take the Laguna Seca record a couple of years back. Who knows what was going on that day? One thing that comes to mind however, Ferrari had their test driver trying for the record, not Michael Schumacher or Rubens Barrichello (their # 2 at the time). Both of those two drivers are head and shoulders above any test driver and would have given a much better showing had they participated. I'm sure there were a lot of other issues going on that prevented the Ferrari's from putting on a good show.

[trekkor]

I run a 2:00 at Laguna...

Amazing times. Staggering, really.


KT

[lowyder993s]

I was hoping for a high 1:30's next weekend. I can't imagine getting lapped every third lap

Gibby, you're blowing my high about the track conditions...my new car is about 1.5" lower than the one I used last year.

[nostatic]

yeah, I ran a 1:51 last year and was hoping to get below 1:50. I can imagine where some of that time is coming from, but 45 seconds? Geez...

Unfortunately looks like setting a new PB at LS will have to wait until next year

[Don Plumley]

"It's an entirely different form of racing, altogether."

"It's an entirely different form of racing."

[MichiganMat]

I was at the pre-run of the Historics (Pre-historics?!@#%) last weekend and it was pretty cool. The tents were just getting set up but most of the cars were on the track.

The best part......FREE.

Totally free. Drive up, walk in, watch, go home, and we had access to pretty much everything on the track. Its pretty awesome that the track organizers made it an open event, thats really great of them. I got to see a great dog-fight between two 935s and some red American peice of crappola that was wicked-fast. Overall, a much better experience than dealing with the crowds and the cost.

[GIBSON]

Agreed that the pre-historics are great, no crowds, just great cars. However, getting to hang out with Jack Brabham, Stirling Moss, Jean Todt (yes, who knows why but Ferrari's F1 guru showed up at the track today in a helicopter watched what was happening), and the Toyota F1 team is pretty cool as well.
Just lucky to have a job in a good place.
I think the real issue with Ferrari at Laguna a couple of years ago
is finally coming out and it's really bizarre. Turns out their tires, the ones intended for the quick runs at the track, were stuck elsewhere and could not be used. They had them in the states, just not at the track. Makes no sense but that comes from someone who knows. So, had it not been for tires, Toyota might have been chasing Ferrari's times today, not CHAMP cars. Remember, the CHAMP cars lap record times were set in qualifying traffic, not alone on the track. No shame in that. That record held for a long time. It took one huge budget to beat it.
But that Toyota is fast. Zonta is a very smooth driver. I stood behind the car as it left the pits and you'd swear it was a street car leaving a stop light. Very smooth and suddenly very fast. Average speed around the track- 120mph. Not bad.

[Noah930]

6 seconds per lap is pretty impressive. But it's also pretty impressive that running a season of ChampCar (basically a high tech, but spec series) will set you back about, what, $10m, while Toyota spends how many hundreds of millions annually to campaign its two cars? Both feats--F1's outright speed, and ChampCar's speed/dollar ratio--are pretty impressive.

[Jims5543]

Originally posted by Noah930
6 seconds per lap is pretty impressive. But it's also pretty impressive that running a season of ChampCar (basically a high tech, but spec series) will set you back about, what, $10m, while Toyota spends how many hundreds of millions annually to campaign its two cars? Both feats--F1's outright speed, and ChampCar's speed/dollar ratio--are pretty impressive.

In motorsports 6 seconds in 1 lap is a lifetime and it would take a Champ team to OK a budget riveling an F-1 team to find that 6 seconds.

[strupgolf]

SoCal911, its true. So what if he or the car set a track record. I guess it bragging rights for awhile, but there, as here in Indy, all track records will fall, or at least until they change the rules. I would love to see Toyota set a track record at Spa, Imola, etc, THEN they can say its for real. With all the money and talent they have, they should be on the front row at most of the F1 races. It was a one time wonder.

[2.7RACER]

Interesting subject, Old Champ Car lap times vs new F1 times.
Leads me to something I hadn't previously considered.
With the current state of open wheel racing in the US, perhaps the adoption of F1 rules regarding weight and size, along with some consideration for engines at or near similar horse power.
Get it all off the ground with the idea of a challenge to F1 from the American series in a year or two.
That is if the F1 boy's weren't afraid.