I like Mike's approach, we are bogged down playing diplomat, parent, brother & sister to all. In the meantime we have little or no control over our children (Dem/Repub and the other misch mash ).
If you want it for 'lights' fine..realize if you screw up..we will be the last ones leaving the building, and we will turn out the lights for good.
Rika

U act like Your all safe in Rotterdam from the Jihad. Your Not, your more at risk than the Continential US, cause they can reach out and touch you.

I'm the one who has been saying its Check Mate time for the USA, we've lost, Cause any move America makes is more than likely catastropic. Bin Laden is sitting in his cave clapping his hands with glee, the only downer for him is that the Sh!!tes are the ones who come out on top and not the Sunnis.

GW in 2007 may just say, " Fk it, I'm screwed anyway U wan a cut it so I might as well go ahead and take the SOB Iranians out."

OR

GW in 2007 might say, "I've had enough grief, why bother, let the next Prez deal with it, we'll just play this diplomacy game out till I'm outa office.."

Then in 2008....The new Prez will fulfill her campaign promise to bring the boyz home from around the world. Telling the world, "Clean up your own messes, we ARE DONE."

Then the world will see the Europeans ***** and pee themselves at the same time....Bin laden will proclaim the Jihad Victorious....all the while Koran sales go through the roof in Europe.

Let me be the one to inform you that both England and France have independent nuclear forces, complete with delivery systems that can reach the entire mideast without problem. Germany could develop such a system in short order if they so desired.

In short, europe has all the deterrent against nuclear attack they need for the forseeable future.

RIKA...The USA is not ONLY playing the game for imposing our will. This train of thought is, America is "BAD" LIberal BS. Besides NAME ONE COUNTRY in the history of the world that wasn't looking out for its interests #1. In Evolution its called Survival....

The more people with their hands on Nukes the more likely somebody will use one in a fit of pique. Since the Iranians have demostrated that they don't play by the rules they have been deemed to be very dangerous if they get their hands on Nuclear weapons. That is the REAL REASON for concern. The USA wishes to avoid them reaching out and touching America.

i never said i was safe(r) here, i just said i'm not bothered by it

if i'de calculate risks, on any given day,i think getting "snuffed by a terrorist" would not be in the top 5

not in any particular order

getting run over
getting mugged
accidently tripping, and taking a fall , breaking my neck
high speed mishap in either of my cars
my cat mistaking me for prey (he's stupid you know)
bad dutch cuisine
Stingrays
...

if you gotta go , you gotta go, no point moaning about it
and i sure as hell refuse to live in fear of every little thing that might kill me.

signing off from this thread, cause frankly , the neocon repuhblicrap stuck FUD record is boring me just as much as the islamofascist rhetoric crap, and if i have to point at which is worse, i'll say loose the FUD , and the islamocrap will get lost by itself...

They will be forced to walk the walk and NOT Talk and Talk anymore, cause they will be responsible for their own defence. Thats the whole point....the Europeans will have to take care of Iran....if they don't they might as well learn how to face East towards Mecca 3 times a day.

While I think there's little risk to any of europe from Iran; they (the european nations) need to assist the Serbs in getting the muslim Albanians completely out of Kosovo. Maybe out of Albania as well. Send them all to Chechnya.

When U were a kid, U watched Cartoons instead of reading European History. Those Islamos are worse than Jehovah Witnesses...they just don't take no for an answer. It took until 1492 to get the Moors (Islamos) outa Spain. Dude once you get those Islamos all wound up the only way to stop em is with the sword.

And Europe will become the NEW Israel in the eyes of the Iranian Islamos.....if they even think about getting Muslims outa Kosovo.

What did the Iranians do when that Danish Cartoon came out, the Pope made a critical remark, Salmon Rasidi wrote a book.... they had a kneption fit..&..put ole Salmon on a Death List....

U think your dealing with rationality in the Islamos....

As distasteful as this would be, I think this is only real answer. Iran has to understand (like we and Soviets did 20 years ago) that once you push that button, it's all over. None of this "slap on the wrist and wait out sanctions and thumb your nose at the UN" for ten years. It's all *over*. In that scenario, Iran would have everything to lose and very little to gain. They can't hit the CONUS and wouldn't be able to for years and even if they did, the amount of damage they could inflict would be minor (relative to the *****storm we would rain down on them) and they would not be able to sit back and enjoy it because their entire country would be back in the stone ages.

I've even thought that this philosophy should be expanded to the "war on terror" (I hate that phrase). Basically, let the radical extremists make all the videos and burn all the flags they want. Make it clear to them that if they pull another WTC stunt, the world will not be big enough for them to hide. We could have done that with Osama 5 years ago but Bush got distracted... And then follow through on that threat when the time came. In the meantime, don't give them the satisfaction of impacting our lives on a daily basis (like taking drinks on aircraft, etc).

Mike

I think Musarraffa and Kadafi got the message. Believe it or not even Arafat, Iran and Syria got it...he knew that he couldn't play games anymore, and he didn't like it.

U see even these bad guys knew a real bunch of uncontrolable whackos (AL Qaeda) had arrived on the scene.

Only problem is that Terrorists have no return address to obliterate. They hide among the innocent. However if the innocent knew they had a bullseye target on them they might just throw the Terrorists out into the street.

Exactly. If the general population of Iran knew deep in their hearts that life as they knew it would end if their government uses a nuclear weapon against us, I would hope they would have something to say in the matter. Same for countries like Afghanistan harboring Al Qaeda. Make it known that we will come and not leave until they are gone. Easier said than done, I know, but our current tactics are only making things worse.

In the meantime, we stay out of their business and stop giving them a good reason to recruit more terrorists. Stop propping up puppet governments and manipulating politics in other countries for our own gain. Let Israel fight their own battles. Be involved economically but not militarily.

Mike

Another Dreamer

This would create an 18 " diameter hole 40 feet deep. They may discover oil there.

The US still has at least a small part of what makes it great. That part is that if we are TRULY threatened, we will respond with overwhelming, truly overwhelming, FORCE. There are many innocent Iranians, probably more pro us than not. They need to realize that their future is currently tied to the zealots. If they cannot assume control, it may be to late for the entire Iranian nation. We will not perish, they will, total complete annihilation.

Remember Dresden.

Can't happen again, well how did it happen in the first place?

I happen to know and like a few Iranians, but if its them or us, well I would not like to be them. God speed the good Iranians. Save yourselves. Time is short, very, very short. The time is NOW!

Snowman U get the idea....if it gets down to the nitty gritty America will do what it takes...inspite of Liberals and Million Man marches by the losers who populate the Liberal ranks.

People just don't understand that to keep this nation afloat and viable WE (that means everybody even the whining anti-war types) will torture, kill women and children and anything less that walks or crawls... Hamburg, Dresden, Tokyo, Hiroshima and Nagasaki were no accidents.

My respond to Nostatic comments is considered sarcasm or "American Humor".

after reading the entire 4 pages on this serious dilemma, i feel we should just ship them all of our E-COLI SPINACH and let them CRAP themselves to death! no radiological cleanup for haliburton!

That would give a new meaning to "the fertile cresent".