Apple customer service
 

My wife just purchased a MacBook Pro to replace the aging Windoze subnotebook (a Sony Vaio) she inheirited from me long ago.

She had been leaning towards the 'Pro' model based on input from friends/colleagues, and then at my recommendation she added another 512MB RAM to the stock config since RAM is dirt-cheap these days and makes a HUGE impact on system performance.

Upon receipt - which was incredibly speedy compared to my Dell & IBM & HP experiences - she realized that she'd rather have the regular 13" and lighter MacBook (non-Pro), as it would be hauled between home and office almost daily.

She called Apple customer service and was curtly notified that because this is a "custom computer" (due solely to the extra RAM DIMM) it cannot be returned, regardless of a restock fee or whatnot!!!

Is this typical of Apple service these days? We have bought several iPod's and whatnot from them but this is the first computer. It's a magnificent machine from what I can tell after a few minutes of tinkering, but if they are unwilling to work with a customer who made a naive mistake and is NOT looking for a refund (rather will likely spend more if ultimately satifisfed), then WTF???

looks like that's the story:

http://store.apple.com/Catalog/US/Images/salespolicies.html

Bummer that the extra ram makes it "custom." Seems pretty harsh. You can always try escalating the customer service call, but odds are low. Did you buy it online or at an Apple Store? If you bought it at a store, they might be a little more willing to work with you.

apple customer service = oxymoron


I owned an IPOD once.

They had to cut back on customer service to pay for their exploding laptop battery recall:D

Try my favorite line. " Who do I need to speak to next?" Usually works.

I can't think of many (any?) manufacturers that will let you freely return a non-defective product just because you changed your mind.

I know retailers let you return clothes and so on, but they can simply be hung back on the rack.

When Apple gets back a MacBook, it has to be completely wiped, the OS reinstalled, all the packaging replaced, and then Apple can only sell it as "refurbished" for $150-250 lower than new.

I see things haven't changed!

Years back I tried to call Apple Customer Service to ask a simple general question about the computer I owned, and was first asked for the serial number of my computer. I didn't have that and didn't feel like climbing under the desk to find it.

Telling the "customer service" representative that my question was just a general question about the system and nothing that would require specific information about my computer was fruitless. He ended up sounding like a broken record, just replying "Serial number for your computer?" to every comment I made. I guess he had some format he was told he was supposed to follow and didn't have the capacity (or wasn't allowed) to deviate from it!

I still think Apple creates some nice stuff, but concluded from that call that they are not "customer friendly" in their practices. My experience could help explain why they have such a small share of the personal computer market. I know my experience sure left me disgusted with them -- which is not something you want to happen when someone calls customer service, if you're concerned about the long-term success of your business.

You must not do much shopping?

Almost every business (these are usually retailers, not the manufacturers acting as retailers also) that I do business with have a "no questions asked" return policy.

My understanding, and experience, is that such "customer friendly" policies are pretty common in business today.

Even some of the auto makers have advertised 100% satisfaction policies where they'll take the car back if you don't like something -- I haven't looked at the fine print on these, but expect they are probably genuine offers. The few customers who do return something just because they changed their mind is a pretty small price for the business to pay when compared to sales successes that can result from such return policies.

You're talking about retailers.

I'm talking about manufacturers.

Retailers have a substantial initial markup (e.g. 50% on clothing), and a business model that allows for large markdowns (hence the 20%, 30%, 40% off sales). And after a jacket is returned, they can put it back on the rack and sell it as new.

Apple has a smaller gross profit margin (around 25% for MacBooks) and cannot resell the returned machine as new. With the discount that it has to offer on refurbished machines, plus the labor to refurbish/repackage/restock, plus the credit card processing fee, its profit on reselling the returned machine would be pretty low (maybe 5-10%). Not such a sales success after all.

Would allowing consumers to try out a MacBook, change their mind, and freely return the machine really help Apple's business? It has probably studied this and concluded "no". It probably decided to allow some returns and draw the line at "custom" configurations because, well, you have to draw the line somewhere.

If Dell, H-P, Lenovo, etc all permitted consumers to freely return ill-chosen PCs, then you might conclude the economics favor such liberal return policies. AFAIK they don't.

If you want to buy a PC with no-question-asked return privileges, look into buying from a Best Buy or similar retailer. They usually follow the more liberal "retailer" return policy.

P.S. Would it really make sense to return even a non-custom MacBook? If I read the Apple policy right, there is a 10% open box fee, say $300 on a $3,000 computer. She might be able to simply resell it for a better price.

P.P.S. I checked Dell - they let you return unopened hardware, no mention of returning opened/used hardware. Just a comparison point. http://www.dell.com/content/topics/global.aspx/policy/en/policy?c=us&l=en&s=gen&~section=010

So it seems that the lesson is to buy the laptop at a retail store: CompUSA for example, which would allow the return/exchange. Not being able to return is a steep price to pay for the "Uber-Cool" Apple store experience...

Looks like all direct order policies for custom ordered systems are the same from the following three manufacturer store fronts - clearly stated if you look under warranty and returns.

Unless you can get a manager to do an exchange outside of policy, looks like you are stuck with it.

Dell Return Policy:
Dell Return Policy (U.S. Only)

Dell values our relationship with you and offers a return policy for most products that you purchase directly from Dell. Under this policy, you may return to Dell, within the applicable return policy period, products that you purchased directly from Dell for a credit or a refund of the purchase price paid, less shipping and handling and applicable restocking fees.

Hardware Products and Accessories: Unless you have a separate agreement with Dell or except as provided in the section below, all hardware, accessories, peripherals, parts and software that is unopened and still in its/their sealed package or, if delivered electronically, that has not been downloaded, may be returned within twenty-one (21) days from the date on the packing slip or invoice for a credit or a refund of the purchase price paid, less shipping and handling and applicable restocking fees.

Exceptions to Dell's 21-day return policy:

New PowerEdgeTM , PowerConnectTM and PowerVaultTM products may be returned within thirty (30) days from the date on the packing slip or invoice, except that new PowerEdgeTM SC servers and n series products purchased from the Small and Medium Business Sales Division may only be returned within fourteen (14) days from the date on the packing slip or invoice.
Application software or an operating system that has been installed by Dell may not be returned unless you return the entire computer under the 21-day return policy, if applicable to your purchase (if not applicable to your purchase, you may not return application software or an operating system).
Dell/EMC storage products, EMC-branded products, Unisys-branded products, PowerVaultTM 160T tape libraries, enterprise software, non-Dell branded enterprise products, software and/or software licenses purchased under any type of volume purchase agreement or any non-Dell customized hardware and/or software product(s) may not be returned at any time.


Apple Return Policy:
RETURN & REFUND POLICY
If you are not satisfied with your Apple purchase of a product, please call 1-800-676-2775 for a Return Material Authorization (RMA) request within 14 calendar days of the receipt of the product. Configure-to-order, personalized or other customized product may not be returned for refund or exchange under any circumstances unless DOA. If the item is returned unopened in the original box, we will exchange it or offer you a refund based on your original method of payment. The product must be returned to the Apple warehouse within 14 calendar days of the issuance of the RMA. All products must be packed in the original, unmarked packaging including any accessories, manuals, documentation and registration that shipped with the product. A 10% open box fee will be assessed on any opened hardware or accessory. If you purchased your order using an Apple Business Lease, you may be asked to provide a major credit card (Visa, MasterCard, American Express, or Discover) for apple to assess the 10% open box restocking fee.

Please note that Apple does not permit the return of or offer refunds for the following products:

Product that is custom configured to your specifications
Opened memory
Opened software*
Electronic software downloads
Personalized iPods
Software Up to Date Program Products (SW upgrades)
Apple Gift Cards
*You may return software after rejecting the licensing terms, provided the software is not installed on a computer. However, software that contains a printed software license may not be returned if the seal or sticker on the software media packaging is broken.

HP/Compaq:
The HP Home & Home Office Store begins processing accepted orders immediately and is therefore unable to accept order cancellation requests once you have received an order confirmation. If an order is processed in error, contact our customer service immediately
at 1-888-999-4747 for instructions.

For custom-built PC's the factory receives your order as soon as it is approved. Since the PC is custom built, your order can not be changed or modified once the order has been submitted/approved. If however an order is processed in error, contact our customer service immediately at 1-888-999-4747 for instructions. We will attempt to cancel your custom order prior to the start of the build process

Or to know what you want in the first place.

Oh, I just checked CompUSA, they have a 15% restocking fee on returns of opened hardware. So not so liberal there either.

Thinking about it. my recollection is CompUSA, BestBuy, CircuitCity, etc get pretty low profit margins on PCs, 5% to 15%. So I guess the economics don't favor as liberal a return policy as maybe some other retailers (e.g. Nordstroms who's making 50% on full price womenswear).

The mark-up on clothing is normally closer to 100%.

When a manufacturer sells directly to the public, they are in the retail business -- even if their margins are lower, they have to expect customer returns/exchanges to be part of their business.

"campbellcj" does imply that he would have been willing to pay a restocking fee too. With a restocking fee and a new purchase of another machine -- which Apple would make a profit on -- your economic argument from Apple's perspective loses strength.

We're also not really talking about "economics" on this particular sale -- we're talking about "marketing and product image."

This one transaction -- and dissatisfaction with an Apple customer service experience (whether right or wrong) -- has now been read by more than 100 people. I don't know how long the thread will last, but this one dissatisfied customer could now influence the potential purchasing decisions of hundreds or even thousands of people.

Your suggestion that adding RAM now makes it a "custom machine" and that Apple has to "draw the line somewhere" demonstrates a lack of understanding of the trends in customer service.

Current trends are all about NOT "drawing lines." The goals of customer service are about having thinking customer service representatives who will look at the circumstances of the individual case they are dealing with and try to make a decision where the customer will be satisfied.

"campbellcj" was not satisfied. Apple can spend the millions of dollars on their very cute advertising campaigns, but if they "blow up" on the customer service attempts and do not try to work with customers for a satisfying conclusion, they are probably wasting their money on the advertising end.

Is the Apple evry customer sotry.

Buying high $$$, heavy items online is not all its cracked up to be. Buy local. Costco if at all possible.

at the margin, Apple's cost on these devices is literally pennies on the dollar. it would not be a problem for them to help a customer with this, as the incurred cost, which would have created a satisfied customer, would be some of the best "advertising" money could buy. too bad Apple isn't as "intelligent" as they always want you to believe

Oh, I don't think they ever claimed to be "intelligent", just "different". ;)

Remember, it's Microsoft that brought us the Intellimouse! :rolleyes:

Sorry, I was thinking "gross margin" but wrote "initial markup". 50% GM = 100% IMU.

Apple is in the retail computer business but that doesn't mean it can or should match the return policies of the retail apparel business where customers can buy and return items all day long. The economics are totally different, as I explained.

(By the way, ronin, it is not right that Apple's cost on laptops is "pennies on the dollar". That's quite wrong, whether you're talking marginal cost or fully loaded cost.)

Of course, the economics of accepting returns can be made fine with a high enough restocking fee, but will anyone pay it? Was the original poster wanting to pay a 10% to 15% = $300 to $450 restocking fee? Would the typical customer be willing to pay that? I suspect they'd be more dissatisfied - i.e. you'd do more harm than good, and the customer would go around whingeing about how you ripped him off with an exorbitant restocking fee.

(Just for fun, I did the math, comparing (A) selling a new MacBookPro with (B) selling a new MacBookPro, taking it back, selling a new MacBook instead, refurbishing/restocking the returned MacBookPro, and reselling the refurbished MacBookPro at the lower refurbished price. (B) looks about $200 to $400 less profitable than (A). They are not economically equivalent at all. So you would need to charge a hefty restocking fee.)

So, now we get to customer satisfaction. A company can always make policies more liberal to satisfy every last customer, but there's a balance between the cost and the benefit. If Apple had poor customer satisfaction metrics, that would suggest it isn't doing the balancing right. But Apple is scoring at or near the top of the PC industry in customer service/satisfaction, based on the articles I've read in Consumer Reports, PC Magazine, etc.

You said customer service reps should look at the circumstances of the individual case. Yes, but I don't see what is so unique about this particular case. A customer chose a laptop, bought it, used it, now wishes they'd chosen a lighter laptop. Take that return, and you're going to take pretty much any and every return.

Bottom-line, a company's return policies should be at least as liberal as the industry norm. It should strike a reasonable balance between satisfying most customers, and still being economically profitable. I don't really expect a company to do "more".

And I don't buy the argument that one complaint thread in the PP OT BBS could cause hundreds or thousands of people to forgo their Mac purchases. There's tons of complaining consumers and complaint threads about Apple - just browse some Mac forums. In our spoiled consumer society, it is not possible to satisfy everybody, and in our internet culture, it is not possible to avoid having negative threads in forums.

perhaps I should have stated my point differently. however, the cost of the units at the margin is low enough to enable Apple to make the switch for which campbellcj's wife asked in order to keep a customer happy (and subsequently retain them) while at the same time creating the opportunity for some very good word-of-mouth advertising

I think some people get sucked in to projections based on a brand. Yeah, the guy on TV who says he's a "Mac" is cool, but the company is still a multibillion dollar business with the highest customer satisfaction and initial product quality in the industry.

Margins on all of this stuff are razor-thin, but there should be an extra customer bonus for dealing with Apple directly, since they get all the margin.

But Apple wasn't unusually consumer-friendly in 1977, when I worked there, so I probably have a more realistic view of what to expect.