I wonder how much we're suffering from selective memory, aka "the good old days" syndrome.

Doesn't anyone remember having terrible teachers when they were kids? I think we did. Where did all those "bad teacher" stereotypes come from, if there weren't any "when we were kids"?

My kids have had a couple of bad teachers so far, one even quit halfway through the school year. They've had mostly good to excellent teachers, though. This is in private school(s). The teachers are not paid any better than public school teachers, AFAIK, but they do get to deal with good kids, nice facilities, and educated parents.

Your children will learn more from you than they will in school. Spending time with your children will pay bigger dividends than spending time with their teachers.

How do you figure that one? 1/2 his class failed last year (we could tell from summer school registration) and the teacher was fired

Obviously she wasn't a teacher in California...damn near impossible to fire one...even really crappy ones.

My wife will finally be done with her degree this semester. Shes a dual secondary education and history major. She does not want to teach in the state of florida and i can't blame her. The stuff he kids do in school is crazy, they talk to the teachers as if they they were sailors, and have no respect. I'm 26, i graduated from a fl high school after transfering my last semester my senior year, and i couldn't believe what i seen. Stuff the teachers let slide by would have been cause for suspension where i grew up(ohio). At my shop alot of younger people come around, ie hs kids, they tell me stories of how bad kids are, how many fights there are, and that the teachers have no control; that they'll do what ever they want because they won't get into trouble and they just don't care. I really think that most teachers start out wanting to help, but most of the kids treat them like **** and after many years basically give up. I know many people that moved here to florida as teachers and quit because the kids were animals. I don't think u can blame most of the teachers for this, this is a parenting issue. Jim i'm not saying that is the case for your son (obv its not the case, you and your wife care very much), but middle school is were most of the kids become major PITA's. I agree the teacher should have reminded him but on the other hand 7th grade is old enough to make sure you get what you missed, i know i remember sitting in class trying to figure out how to get out of doing the make up homework :)
I just don't think that the horrible school system in florida can be blamed on the teachers, alot of the problem is the state system, they spend so much time worried about passing state tests that all they(the schools) do is practice for the test and forget about actually teaching the kids something. If they taught them they would pass the state tests with ease.

Marv,
Your wife and mine sound like they would get along fine. Mine has been teaching for over 27 years, (mostly grade 6) and is small enough she is sometimes referred to as the "Stealth Teacher". The kids don't see her walking down the hall and get caught doing the dumbest things. She cheerfully fosters the persona of "The Wicked Witch of the West Wing", by coming down hard on rule breakers, but at the same time, seems to have a stream of kids coming to her, just to hang around. (One young man, 6 years after he had been in her class, invited her to his high school graduation. He said he wouldn't have made it if it wasn't for her.)

I have convinced her this year, to use her caring attitude for the kids and the respect she has with a young staff to guide the younger teachers along the path she has found to work with the kids. It is interesting to note she was initially surprised they were interested in what she has found to work for her and are eager for guidance. She is just grasping that being a leader doesn't mean you have to be a principal or VP, you just have to lead.

Her philosophy remains you have to have respect for those around you and , at the same time you have to earn their respect. Most of her students grasp that pretty quickly, but those who have difficulty with the concept are those who don't have the message re-enforced at home (or worse, have a home life where respect is not part of the equation).

I agree, there are teachers in many classrooms who can not deal with their jobs. I had a few in the 60s. They have always been there. Some quickly find out dealing with the problems young people bring to the classroom these days is beyond them, others, holding on for a pension are, sadly hurting the very kids they are there to help.
They are, after all, only human.

Les

When he asked onthe third day the teacher freaked on him. Happily exclaiming he already got his zeros. Like she was waiting for the 2 days to pass and not saying a word to him knowing he was getting zeros.

Wow! I guess its a really tough world for 13 years olds.

Its o.k. for the teachers to get 5 days behind in their work and the kids have to be right there.

That was my point.

I have not spoken to a single teacher and our son has been punished and lost lots of things he likes.

But as I sit and ponder about this it steams me. Because I cannot believe a teacher would not offer the work to him. He has to ASK for it. Otherwise they will knowingly sit and hold the make up work and let him get a zero. Obviously they were aware he was about to get Zeros.

I sit EVERY night with him and do his homework with him.

I tried to teach him math last year and you know what? I could not do it. I could not explain to him how to do Trig and Geometry. I am not a teacher. I understand how to do it but to articulate it so a 12 / 13 y/o can understand it was difficult.

I was fighting like a mad man to get him to pass that math class last year. I worked with him every night.

I am not your typical toss the kids to the side parent.

My entire social life has been put to the side for my family. I do not go out with the guys I do not participate in any social event, including going out with my wife for a "date night" we are there for our kids 7 days a week 24 hours a day, I will even leave my office to do something for my kids or wife if they need it. My only recreation? I go to the Gym at 6:00 in the morning before work. I participate in 2 to 3 track days a year and even then I take my son with me he helps me out in the pits etc..

You have the wrong person in your minds. I care about my kids.

Jim, this is not healthy.

not healthy , but admirable
i was lucky if i saw my parents at the diner table
let alone for any so called quality time

It's simply a function of a society in which people have little alternative but to put themselves, their own interests and their own agendas first or else run the risk of being ***** on and taken advantage of by everyone else. It's kind of sad but it's one of those "chicken and egg" questions - if people weren't so self-serving, would there be no more reason to have to be self-serving just to ensure one's own survival in this oh-so-modern and enlightened society of ours?

I feel for your son but the name of the game these days is just the same as with anything else - money talks, B.S. walks. Maybe look at private school or private tutoring?

Kurt - Between the 3 y/o and our 13 y/o we have no time at all for ourselves. The 3 y/o goes to bed at 8:00 and I am usually sitting with the 13 y/o going over homework. I was posting last night between assignments then checking them and going over them with him.

He gets home from School at 4:45 p.m. then heads for a 8 week tutor program we have him in, he is 4 weeks away from being done. Its seems to be helping but its not normal tutoring its more of a tune up for the brain. He gets home from that at 6:15 then eats dinner and starts homework by around 7 p.m.

Homework usually wrpas up at about 8:30-9 pm. then he woudl normally get to watch tv for an hour but he has lost that so he gets to sit in his room and read before bedtime. He gets tucked in at 10 p.m. I normally pass out a few minutes later having been up since 6. Then he gets up at 7 a.m. to start it all over again.

I am sometimes amazed that some of the members of this board who have kids actually have time for so many other things.

None of us have a life and will not until he gets to High School when he gets home at 2:00.

I guess I am just frustrated, this poor kids entire life is school, he has no time to be a kid and if he acts like a kid in school he gets big zeros. I am pissed at him for forgetting to ask for his makeup work but have to wonder if he did it on purpose so he would not be sitting up all night doing it.

I am more upset with the what the teacher said and did to him. I guess I just expected an adult to have a little compassion. It must have been really important to them to teach him a lesson.

When he has to ASK for the makeup work he is being held accountable.
This is good lesson for him. He can learn self reliance knowing that you are there to help if needed. Also please understand that he knows the importance that you are placing on this and maybe blowing up the teacher freaked on me kind of thing. She may just have given a short curt reply that he had missed his chance and now he knows he has to tell you he let you down. Hence evil teacher who was just trying to raise the child with a community effort not seen by you.

Jim, school is not that tough. If your kid is working that hard and still failing or doing poorly then effort is probably not the problem so more of it may even hurt. I'm not saying your kid is stupid or anything like that, but there are other things that can hinder learning. Have you had his eyes checked? His hearing? etc....

Eyes checked and glasses prescribed 2 years ago. Checkups ruotinly after that.

Ears checks by my dad who is an Audiologist.

He has been to
Learning RX a cognitive training and it helped a little.

He is now at a Learning Center and it seems to be helping.

No len, school can be that tough

I had friends in high school that would go to class everyday and take notes and pay strict attention while I would doodle and fall asleep. the tests would come around and I'd pull of my A and some of those friends would do better but others would do worse than me

sometimes people just simply arent that smart and cant grasp concepts

also jim, I agree with you that its unfortunate, i was in middle school less than 6 years ago and i know that when i missed stuff teachers would help me to make it up. They left it up to me more in high school but even then they were helpful. The trend seems to be that kids are suppsoed to be responsible adults at younger and younger ages which is completely ridiculous

Bottom line: teaching is a JOB.
People often hate their JOB.

A teacher who hates their JOB will not be a decent teacher.
Unfortunately, this job is unusual in that it directly & deeply personally impacts other humans in the 'family chain'

School isn't about being "smart", it's about getting students to pass tests in order to not lose federal funding. You can thank the "no-future-corporate-drone-left-behind" legislation for that one.

There's an incentive for teachers to flunk a few students too - it saves them work. If you can show a percentage of failures on a particular test or course, it gives it (in the eyes of non-discriminating individuals - like supervisory bureaucrats) de facto legitimacy as a "good test" or "good course" because not everyone was able to ace it and not everyone bombed it. As such, there's little pressure to re-configure the course or test - you can simply repeat the same thing year after year and float happily along collecting a paycheck.

It's extremely easy to write a test that will guarantee a certain percentage of passes/fails. This has nothing whatsoever to do with imparting the knowledge or abilities the test is SUPPOSED to be evaluating. Nothing whatsoever.

If those supervising the teachers actually gave a damn about the knowledge or information transfer rather than the raw test scores (they don't, since there's no incentive to under NCLB), the teachers would have to re-work their tests and course outlines/lesson plans more regularly. Since this is more work for them, they certainly won't push for it (at the expense of the students). Since the bureaucrat supervisors don't care (test scores are what matters), they likewise won't push for it (at the expense of the students).

One thing to keep in mind is that the overall approach and tone of school changes drastically right about where your son is. Up to 5th and 6th grade, teachers are much more coddling and accomodating. From 7th-8th the teachers start kicking ass to prepare the kids for the harder standards of high school.

I remember 7th grade as very similar to what you describe. I was shocked when I got my first zero for missing a deadline. Couldn't the teacher have reminded me? No--you're not in elementary school any more.

I would be very observant of your son's reactions. Is he responding/maturing in an appropriate way? The episode you described should have scared the crap out of him such that he'll never turn in an assignment late again! Did it? Or did he make excuses? "prone to silly boy stuff" starts to run out at this age. Make sure his responsibility level is improving proportionally, and not by kicking he ass. That's the perfect age to start using organizational tools. Give him a small day planner if he doesn't use one already. Make him write down upcoming assignments and deadlines. Review them every night at a specified time. You can help him get organized to the point where he'll weather bad teachers well, and not get put back on his heels by them.

It only gets tougher on him from here on.

No, it's really not that tough. I agree that some have to work harder than others, but with even moderate effort good grades should be easy. This assumes no severe learning disabilities.

Jim has described a kid that gets 1 hour of professional tutoring a day and does 8-10 hours of work at home per week with a concerned parent. There is NO excuse for not getting good grades unless there is a severe underlying problem (not necessarily a mental one).

Please don't take that wrong Jim, it could be that your kids horny as hell and can't think of anything but skirts. :D

My wife is a teacher and she's at work almost an hour earley and stays at least an hour late every day, as well as working through lunch time and she brings home work every night. She has been spending 3-4 hours at work every Saturday. There are some other teachers at her school (where both of our kids attend) that do the same thing. Same as any other profession, there are dedicated professionals and there are the slackers...