I think in Rumsfeld and Cheney's mind, the demark point for the "war" was after major combat operations ended. From that point of view everything has been rosy. Neirther of these guys rally put much focus on winning the peace. It is quite clear that this was the case given the limited support that they provided the teams planing the aftermath of the elimination of Sadam's regeime.

I doubt that there is any double secret slource of info that the war is going well as seems to be implied by Fint. The fact is, they are collecting metrics, and the metrics are not classified. To assume that things are going well is to be seriously deluded. I am not sure how any one can cling to a story that things are going well, when even the administration has been acknowledging the reality on the ground.

Having said this, I doubt that Fint is Lying. I suspect it is more a matter of seeing the workd very differently that us.

fint is not "lying", because he is not stating specific facts that are provably true or false, he is merely stating his opinion and his spin.

Kind of like someone could say that Ford and General Motors are "doing very well". He wouldn't be lying. He'd just be laughable.

Sorry John, saying Ford is "doing very well" is lying, if you know better.

fint has some interest in making the Bush admin look good. It could be just some insane commitment to GWB, but I suspect it's deeper than that. Some interest or agenda he has kept hidden.

If someone from China that never heard of Ford said they are "doing well," that would be clueless. If someone that is a stockholder and student of the company says it, it's a lie.

fint's lying. read Woodward's book and you will see that GWB and his entire war team are doing the same. Not being optimistic. Lying.

I love this country. It's okay to call the President of the United States of America a liar.

If the president can call me an appeaser and collaborator, which I am not, I can call him a liar, which he is.

Anyone, ANYONE, who says or implies that the War on Iraq is going well is a liar.

Does "kind of well" make some one a kind of liar? :D

Isn't it interesting how anytime Rodeo quotes someone.....the person quoted never posted the words Rodeo put inside the quotation marks? Then he has the nerve to call others liars...

Once again, the war is going quite well....depending on how you define the term. Obviously, some of us realize that the term "war" is not often used for a campfire girl camp-out.

The truth will not land you in jail for disclosing it...change your approach and try it sometime and you will see.

You are either a HAL investor, a HAL employee, or a mental patient.

Perhaps all three. :eek:

Should of, could of, would of....

I thought seriously about buying some Force Protection earlier this year:

http://bigcharts.marketwatch.com/quickchart/quickchart.asp?symb=frpt&sid=0&o_symb=frpt&x=48&y= 23

Fint, how do you define it, and how does this definition lead you to the conclusion the war is going quite well?

I'll answer for fint ... 800% is doing "quite well" by anybody's standards.http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1160569950.gif

Of course, the few hundred thousand killed and injured might disagree, but, hey you gotta break a few eggs if you want to make an 800% omlet, right?

by Fintstone's definition of "going quite well," the recent North Korean nuclear test was a huge success, both in terms of the physical test and hoped for elilcited response from the world.

:rolleyes:

anyone who supports President Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and "stay the course" directly supports the Terrorists and does great disservice to our troops. The results on the ground speak for themselves. That is to say 100 Iraqis in the last 2 days would tell you that, but they are dead.

No one, not even the President, can put our troops in harms way with no plan -- military, diplomatic, economic or political -- for victory. To do so is morally corrupt, even traitorous to our Military and country.

here is the White House's National Strategy for Victory in Iraq from November 2005. Read it. Pay attention to Victory in Iraq Defined.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/infocus/iraq/iraq_strategy_nov2005.html

Then let us know how you define Short Term, Medium Term and Long Term, because the White House doesn't.

Since this was created nearly a year ago, how do you think we are doing?

lastly, why is Sen. John Warner (R) Virginia now a Democrat? What's up with that? Is he another Murtha Traitor?

Our mission in Iraq is clear. We're hunting down the terrorists. We're helping Iraqis build a free nation that is an ally in the war on terror. We're advancing freedom in the broader Middle East. We are removing a source of violence and instability, and laying the foundation of peace for our children and grandchildren."

-- President George W. Bush
June 28, 2003


The foundation of peace, maybe $1 trillion by time it is laid, will bankrupt our children and grandchildren.

Olympia Snow (R, ME) now too. Too little, too late for the congressional republicans, but at least we know they are not completely spineless.