Victory Motorcars Deal -- Panic, Resolution

jetkona · 09-27-2006, 08:25 PM

Looked into an 88 911 Carrera with 100K miles for sale at Victory Motorcars in Houston. Car described as "Excellent" in all catagories. Had a PPI done at Koby Motors, a Porsche service shop in Houston, that came back with a good report in all areas. Bought the car and had it shipped. When car arrived, it was missing parts, and smelled like mold on the inside. Detailed inspection indicates sever water damage in the interior of the car. Carpets, seats and electrical components were all flooded at some time. Seller Robert Neal denys and knowledge of the water damage and refuses to resolve the issues.

Bottom line: And only my opinion...Victory Motor Cars is quilty of fraud, misrepresents their cars and goes to great lengths to hide any issues. It is likely they are in colusion with several area shops providing PPI inspections. Odometer rollback issues are common with them and explained away as typo issues.

Conclusion and my personal advise...Stay Far Away from Victory Motor Cars. You can't trust him as far as you could throw him. He is the poster child for sleezy used car dealers.

If you want more details on this transaction let me know, I'd be happy to provide them as well as pictures.

EarlyPorsche · 09-27-2006, 08:42 PM

I really woul be intereste in some pictures. Is there an obvious water line in the car? Are the electrical connections all white and crusty? Basically I just want to know how you came to the conclusion you did.

jetkona · 09-27-2006, 08:59 PM

Here are two picture that probably illustrate it best... One is the pedal floor board with the waterline the other is the drivers door with the waterline. The metal below the waterline inside the car is corroded with white deposits. I have disassembled the seat switches and they too have the same corrosion.

I have a friend who works independantly for the insurance industry as an an expert on household flood damage. She looked the car over thoroughly and confirmed it had been flooded.

Perhaps I should explain that by flooded, I do not mean the entire car was in a flood. The exterior, under carriage etc. show no signs of that. It is the interior. It's as if the sunroof was left open during a three day Texas deluge.

Jeff Alton · 09-27-2006, 09:54 PM

There is a few stories here about them that the search function will uncover, happy reading!!

Sorry it appears you got hurt by them in your purchase. I am sure they sell some good cars, but there are enough stories out their about them that I will never deal with them.

I rebuilt the motor on a car purchased from them described as in "excellent condition". The purchaser was new to P-cars and did not know any better. The car is in fair condition cosmetically (at best) and I rebuilt the motor because it had 3 broken head studs.....

But, they seem to stay in business, kinda like that other company that rebuilds motors........

Cheers

Eric Coffey · 09-27-2006, 09:56 PM

Wow, that sucks Jim. I hope you are pursuing the matter further. I would suggest contacting the TX Attorney General's office to start. Also, get in touch with a good consumer advocacy lawyer who is up on TX (and Federal) lemon laws. Usually, the lemon laws only apply to new vehicles, but if you buy a used car with substantial undisclosed defects (odometer roll-back, flood, salvage/wrecked, etc.) you should be entitled to compensation. There are lots of lemon-law resources out there, so do your homework. Good luck!

Joeaksa · 09-28-2006, 02:03 AM

Have you contacted them about it? Would do that and what Eric said above. If they are allowed to get away with this then it will happen again and again.

oldE · 09-28-2006, 02:55 AM

" Had a PPI done at Koby Motors, a Porsche service shop in Houston, that came back with a good report in all areas."

Is there an additional story here? Was there a period of time between the PPI and shipping? I would think they should have caught this.

Best of luck in resolving your issues.

Les

Dixie · Dixie's Garage

I think you have little recourse. You’re going to have a hard time assigning blame. Is it Victory's fault for not disclosing? Is it the Koby Motor's fault for not noticing? Is it the shipping company's fault for not closing a window? Is it the buyer's fault for not looking at the car prior to purchase?

strupgolf · 09-28-2006, 03:50 AM

Did you run a carfax and if so, did it show anything wrong? It would be interesting to see if it does, to show how accurate those reports really are. Wondering

Super_Dave_D · Super_Dave_D's Garage

Sorry to hear

I wouldn't buy from them again even of the PPI came back as the nicest in existence. That guy is the nicest guy in the world but once there’s a problem - it gets nasty!

I made my mistake because I didnt know about this board and others existed. If I had the knowledge then, that I know now, I would have never bought from them, PPI or not.

But hey - it was a learning experience and a costly at that. It only took me a year to get it "almost" sorted out and I'm not done yet.

Paul K · Paul K's Garage

Have you tried to contact the PO?

Cheers,

Paul.

930LDR · 09-28-2006, 05:04 AM

Seems to me I would have been more pissed with the guy who did the inspection.

Thomas Owen · 09-28-2006, 05:47 AM

Is there ANY possiblity this could have happened during transport? Open or closed trailer? Length of time (documented) from pick-up to delivery?
Good luck -

Rob Channell · 09-28-2006, 05:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by 930LDR
Seems to me I would have been more pissed with the guy who did the inspection.

Yep. I'd be talking to the Koby people as well.

slow&rusty · 09-28-2006, 05:52 AM

So why didn't Koby who did the PPI pick-up on the water damage? My PPI included a full and detailed interior inspection?

Sorry to hear...does everything electrically work?

Yasin

jetkona · 09-28-2006, 06:01 AM

Thanks for the replies guys. I think I am most unhappy with myself. (When will I learn) I should have flown out there and looked at it my self but I didn't have the time. Koby Motors dropped the ball big time but I have learned that most shops don't have a clue how to do a thorough PPI.

Carfax came back clean, the car lived in Texas all its life and has no negative history except for the odometer issue that I noticed. Carfax didn't even pick that up. Victory explained it as a typo they were in the process of fixing through the TEXAS DMV. Below is the link to the Carfax report It's good for another day or two.

http://www.carfax.com/phoenix/external/viewEmailReport.do?a=xCW8V3G6%2FuIWpO14mUaZqruI7p0 XZ%2Bd0pTKfADVMw6FIcX5x2qyAptbDgDaCTSi3

Victory still claims it never had any water in it and that it's all my imagination, Right. They offered no resolution. I will probably file complaints will all the pertinant organizations including the FICC but I have no expectations.

I'll let you know if anything changes.

Eric Coffey · 09-28-2006, 12:41 PM

Did they send/email you any interior pictures prior to purchase? If so, look to see if the water line appears in any of them. Also, doesn't Carfax offers any guarantee? Like up to $5k back for a report that isn't accurate? I would certainly read their policy carefully.
Lastly, if you are concerned about the odometer (rollback vs. typo), post a pic of the gauge. If it was in fact rolled back, and sales receipts/dmv records can be tracked back to the dealer, then that takes in up a notch (Federal offense I believe).

jetkona · 09-28-2006, 01:13 PM

Yes Eric, there were lots of pictures of the car both inside and out but none taken from close enough to see what I found when it arrived.

Regarding Carfax, I did read their policies and of course not being a Lawyer, I'm not sure if I am translating properly but I don't think they'll help. I did register the car with them so I will at least try.

Below is a pic of the OD. The Carfax report showed the milage on 3/18/2006 to be 131,460. This is what it is today.

rouxroux · 09-28-2006, 01:17 PM

Sorry to hear of your trouble with this car. Did you get the carfax before purchase? Just wondering about the difference in the odometer...That in itself would make me think something was "fishy".

jetkona · 09-28-2006, 01:27 PM

Yes I did get the report before I purchased the car. It was the first thing I called about as (like you said) it was fishey.

Robert Neal of Victory spent 10 minutes assuring me it was not a rollback issue. He said he was working with the Texas DMV to correct the report and that it was merely a typo. "This has happened to me several times" he stated "and we were able to track down the inspection reports and correct the problem". DON"T WORRY ! HA