Wow......just wow......

[HardDrive]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15552211/

George, for heavens sake man, wake up.

[tabs]

Iraq is in a Civil War. According to A. Shadid of the NY Times Bagdad has become a grim place since his last visit. That people have given up on the American "project" People are now going back to there clans and tribes to seek security instead of the government.

Fareed Zakaria Editor Newsweek Int. has said that the Iraqis are in a power vacume and that the Militias are carving out their own niches, and are in a power grabbing situation. That the Militias are splintering to see who comes out on top. That the US military is becoming viewed as a Militia unto itself. That the govt is Sh!it and that causes the Sunnis to fight even that much harder. Also that when the US took over through some very ill thought out decisons the Sunnis who had been the ruling power for 600 years was dismissed, with no alternative to replace them.

Jack Keane Rt Vice Chief of Staff US Army and a close friend of Rummy says that the WH isn't in denial and will make some adjustments in policy that he hopes will get on top of the situation, but they won't say much about it in public. He says that Iraq could be the biggest foreign policy diaster in memory, far bigger than Vietnam.

They all basically agreed that the Iraqis are incapable of Democracy, since violence and intolerence is such a way of life. That Iraq is a microcosm of the ME, that the Dictators who rule in the ME keep a lid on the sectarian nature of their societies. Other than that they basically said the same things I did in my Chaos in Iraq Thread.

Welcome to he11 people, cause we are in it.

[Aurel]

Yep, $300 Bn went down the drain for absolutely nothing. Actually, not nothing, worse than that: for making a situation worse than it already was, and creating a bigger terrorist hotbed than there was. It is pretty much like spending 30 grands on a new Porsche without knowing how to drive, and crashing it in a wall. Without listening to your neighbors who were telling you not to get in that car.

Aurel

[tabs]

Originally posted by Aurel
creating a bigger terrorist hotbed than there was.

Aurel

Well I guess if there are 2 Foreign Fighters in Iraq that means its a bigger hot bed than it was.

I did some research on Iraq and found that the Sunnis are whacking the Foreign Fighters...the evidence is that the US chased Zarqawi for over 2 years and could never touch him. Then all of a sudden last June he got snitched out and the US was able to whack him. Also if U read carefully 2 other high ranking Foreign Fighters have bit the dust since Zarqawi got hit. The reason being is that the Shi!ts obviously and now the Sunnis see the Foreign Fighters killing Iraqis for their own interests. Its becomeing an inhouse brawl.

[74-911]

Originally posted by tabs

Jack Keane Rt Vice Chief of Staff US Army and a close friend of Rummy says that the WH isn't in denial and will make some adjustments in policy that he hopes will get on top of the situation, but they won't say much about it in public. He says that Iraq could be the biggest foreign policy diaster in memory, far bigger than Vietnam.

If anyone believes some "adjustments in policy" will get "us" on top of the situation in Iraq, they are big-time in denial. The only thing that might change the situation is about 100,000 more troops on the ground and it is probably to late for that now even if we had the troops available. You know, the number Sheninski said would be needed to successfully invade Iraq, right before Rummy sacked him.

Keane is right about the foreign policy disaster though. The repurcussions of this fiasco are far more serious.

[Aurel]

When even the neocons are now blaming Bush and saying that they would not have invaded Iraq knowing how it would turn, I say it is as bleak as it can get.

http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2006/12/neocons200612

Aurel

[speeder]

I read an interesting statistic very recently; before the US invasion, the Baghdad city morgue averaged ~50 people a month total who were victims of all types of violent death. In October, the figure was 2640. Oh yeah, that was civilians, presumably not including Iraqi Police killed(?) Not sure about that detail. None the less, is there any more stark proof of the abysmal failure of US policy? It's criminal incompetence.

[tabs]

U have to realize that Jack Keane is speaking conservativily and I'm parphrasing...he came across a bit more forcefull...than "some Adjustments" he recognizes the situation is BAD, and that the admin needs to make some pretty big changes..but speaking in the admins behalf he played it conservative ... "Some adjustment"...

Bush plays things close to the vest, Bush realized things were going wrong when he called Henry K in for consultation 15 times, now hes called Baker in...that tells U that he knows things are FKed up...

Any manager has to give his policies some time to work out, and hes gona put the best spin on them he can...in the meantime...Well things ain't workin out and now he has to make some changes...before U crucify ole GW lets see what changes he makes..

[74-911]

Per this article: http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/11/04/war.games.ap/index.html
a 1999 war games study said it would take 400K troops to control Iraq and even that many would not guarantee success. That is, even with that number of troops it might end up just as it has. I feel confident that if Bush ever knew of this study he completely ignored it because of another of his gut feelings.

As far as giving GWB more time for his policies to work, three years of "staying the course" resulting in the current state of affairs is rather indicative that his policies are not working and aren't going to. My apologies...., I forgot he hasn't really been "staying the course".

I think GWB always stays the course because to alter course would be to admit he made a mistake and GWB is apparently incapable of admittting he made a mistake.