Stem cell research

[Rick Lee]

Originally posted by Jim Richards
A: Wingnuts.

I'm not aware of any wingnuts ever having had an effect on where VC folks invest their money.

[Jim Richards]

RL, I was testing to see if you were awake. Apparently, you slept in today.

[artplumber]

Originally posted by nostatic
you mean like splitting the atom?

And look where that got us. At least in the old days it was a bunch of scared Russians on the other side of the fence. You think MAD is going to work with terrorists?

[cool_chick]

Originally posted by Rick Lee
....embryonic stem cell research because it has shown zero promise so far ...

Where did you get this information that it shows zero promise?

[jorian]

Hendog,

Is that your car I see for sale? If so, what gives? Sorry you have to get rid of it - unless of course you are upgrading...

[Hendog]

Originally posted by jorian
Please post a unbiased source

Yes, the source is biased but that’s not the issue here. We could start another thread on the objectivity and/or bias of the media I suppose.

Originally posted by cool_chick
Hendog, I believe it's because of this....

Embryonic stem cells and adult stem cells serve different purposes (medically). You won't ever be able to take an adult stem cell and grow nerves so that a person can walk again...

We would benefit...but differently....from both technologies being developed.

It was not until the 1990s that scientists agreed that the adult brain does contain stem cells that are able to generate the brain's three major cell types—astrocytes and oligodendrocytes, which are non-neuronal cells, and neurons, or nerve cells.

Adult stem cells may also exhibit the ability to form specialized cell types of other tissues, which is known as transdifferentiation or plasticity.

So there is the possibility to develop different cells other than those from which they came.

Information form here: http://stemcells.nih.gov/info/basics/basics7.asp (unbiased source )

[Hendog]

Jorian, that is my car for sale. Since my wife quit working last March and the insurance ran out in April, I haven't been able to keep it on the road along with the Honda and the truck. I can keep our household going on my salary but the toy may have to be sacrificed. If I can't drive it then I see no reason to keep it. I would get more return on my money if I put it against my mortgage. If/when she decides to get back intot he work force then I can get another.

[Rick Lee]

Originally posted by cool_chick
Where did you get this information that it shows zero promise?

From the lack of hoopla about any break-throughs in ESC's, which would have ended this debate long ago had there been any. Can you name any? Seems to me there'd be plenty of vc flowing to it if there was some there there.

[cool_chick]

Originally posted by Rick Lee
From the lack of hoopla about any break-throughs in ESC's, which would have ended this debate long ago had there been any. Can you name any? Seems to me there'd be plenty of vc flowing to it if there was some there there.

So let me get this straight...you say there is zero promise because of the "lack of hoopla?"

[Rick Lee]

No, there is zero promise (so far) because the only legs ESC research has is as a political wedge issue. There have been no breakthroughs and there have been plenty in other areas which are more deserving of taxpayers' money. Money flows where there is the greatest chance of return or success. Don't you think VC guys and/or drug companies would be lining up to fund ESC research if they thought there something there?

[cool_chick]

Originally posted by Rick Lee
No, there is zero promise (so far) because the only legs ESC research has is as a political wedge issue. There have been no breakthroughs and there have been plenty in other areas which are more deserving of taxpayers' money. Money flows where there is the greatest chance of return or success. Don't you think VC guys and/or drug companies would be lining up to fund ESC research if they thought there something there?

Rick, I'm sorry, but that's inginuous to claim highly qualified and educated scientists want to research embryonic stem cells simply for "political wedge" purposes. What proof do you have to substantiate this is the motivation of researchers?

And again, how do you know there is little chance of return or success? You're basing this on hoopla....c'mon.....I know you're deeper than that...

VC guys and/or drug companies get welfare from our government. Why would they line up if there's no welfare to be had? I think you're applying laz fairre (sp) capitalistic principles to a pseudo-socialistic industry.

IMO, "hoopla" isn't the way to intelligently analyze this topic. Researching scientific research, etc. is....

[Rick Lee]

I never said those who use ESC research as a wedge issue are the scientists themselves, not even close. Since they are quite free to do whatever they want with ESC, the best one side can do is redefine the lack of federal funding as a ban, which is 100% false and THAT is what's disingenuous. That's how it becomes a wedge issue.

[cool_chick]

Originally posted by Rick Lee
I never said those who use ESC research as a wedge issue are the scientists themselves, not even close. Since they are quite free to do whatever they want with ESC, the best one side can do is redefine the lack of federal funding as a ban, which is 100% false and THAT is what's disingenuous. That's how it becomes a wedge issue.

The best one can do is redefine not funding any research, period!

Back to capitalism!

Seriously, don't dis the research without researched substantiation , dis the socialism...the idea of federal funding. period Don't try to claim something is "more worthy" of socialism and something else is "less worthy of socialism"....this is as "worthy" as any other socialistic crap.......

[JSDSKI]

Originally posted by Rick Lee ...there have been plenty in other areas which are more deserving of taxpayers' money. Money flows where there is the greatest chance of return or success. Don't you think VC guys and/or drug companies would be lining up to fund ESC research if they thought there something there?

Can we put aside the tax/no tax argument for a moment ?

Tax spending is a "social contract" based upon legislative power. Taxes are pooled and then legislatures decide how and on what to fund with taxes according to constituents. As members of a representative government society, we agree to support things communally that we may not support individually. I may not want corn conglomerates (ADM) to get federal subsidies but my taxes go to that anyway - even though I have an ethical problem with giant corporations getting tax break designed for individual farmers. Its a trade off I'm willing to accept because I like the government spending my tax dollars on NASA and other science programs.

But in terms of raw, basic r&d, Rick, nostatic has it right. VC will not fund raw r&d. VC will not spend billions on atom splitting. VC will not spend millions on fisheries research, etc. etc. Most social and cultural infrastructure through history has been government funded - simply because the payoff was invisible at the time of the investment. Or the payoff was not in cash/ROI.

These are things that only governments are good at. It is false economics to apply capitalist theory to government activity. Government and governing is neither fundamentally profitable nor is it meant to be.

[Racerbvd]

If there was really money to be made with this, a Republican venture capitalist would be all over it!! The government isn't saying, like most liberals like to say, that scientist can't do the research, they are just saying they are they aren't going to pay for it. If liberals are so sure about it, why don't they get mike fox and his other Hollywood elite to fund it???? With what they get per movie, they can afford it, and since what they get per movie, they are clearly very greedy