What is the basis of our individual philosophys?

[Moneyguy1]

Reading the volumes posted here, I got to wondering about a few things, so bear with me. There seem to be those who think in a certain way and are convinced that their way is the right way. So, it occurred to me that there must be factors in each of our lives that have formed our way(s) of thinking about social issues, religion, politics. I also wondered if these positions change with the individual over time. Since we have a cross-section of the population as to age and location, I thought it would be interesting to get some views on why people think the way they do, and whether they thought the same in the past or whether they think their views will change in the future. Does time make people more set in their ways or does it mellow them out? Do you become more dogmatic with time or less certain what is an absolute? Were your philosophies in part, at least, the result of influence by a parent, a teacher, someone else or environmental/economic conditions?

This might be a very revealing discussion, telling more about ourselves than we might be ready to admit, so be honest, but be careful!!

[HardDrive]

Despite what some might believe on this board, I have gotten considerably more conservative over time. I have found that I have moved towards the 'center' as I have gotten older (I'm 37).

I just wish there were some Republicans to vote for.....real Republicans.......not these ultra right religous wingnuts that pass for republicans these days.

EDIT: So how did I get to my current position? I grew up in Michigan, where I certainly would have been considered a 'liberal'. But then I moved to Boston, and realized that I was not a liberal. Pompus f*ckfaces like John Kerry are 'liberals'.

I'm just a fella from Michigan who's grand dad was a union steward. We always voted Democrat because they were pro union.

Then I moved to Seattle, and once again, I became even move clear that I was not a 'liberal'. I don't think that trees and pets have the same rights a people. I don't think that Lenin was a great man.

I'm just a fella from Michigan who believes that folks should pretty much mind their own f*ciking business.

And be polite.

And if you disagree with me....we then f*ck you.

[wludavid]

I'm still pretty young in comparison to the average age here on PPOT (25) but I've actually gotten more liberal as I've gotten older. I was seduced by libertarianism in HS and early college. (Actually, I really liked anarchism, but libertarian seemed more do-able.) A lot of my structure of thought came from reading Heinlein (v. libertarian) and from listening to my dad (who read Heinlein when he was younger).

But as I got older, I realized the "the invisible hand" of the market could not guarantee everyone a healthy and productive life, and that we need backup mechanisms in place.

Also, I've watched so many examples of markets going to hell (Enron, CA power crisis, Worldcom) that I can't believe that just because the market allows something, that we as a society should heed it blindly. We need to examine those things more closely. Case in point on the micro-econ level: the payday loan stores that spring up near military bases. Sure, there's a demand when there are nearby people with their first realy jobs and a guaranteed income. Should we allow them to operate - some might say 'prey' - on our young soldiers? A libertarian says yes, I say no.

The rest of my liberalism has stemmed from an increasing backlash of and feeling of betrayal by the current party in power. Some here would label me a knee-jerk Bush hater. But I assure you my Bush-hating has been learned, not instinctual; I supported him and 2001, 2002, and 2003.

[svandamme]

i'm as flakey now as i was 10 years ago...

[Burnin' oil]

Originally posted by svandamme
i'm as flakey now as i was 10 years ago...

Same here but my laziness is increasing

[lendaddy]

Rush Limbaugh and Fox News tell me what to think.

[svandamme]

Originally posted by Burnin' oil
Same here but my laziness is increasing

lol, mine is too

[legion]

Originally posted by wludavid
I'm still pretty young in comparison to the average age here on PPOT (25) but I've actually gotten more liberal as I've gotten older. I was seduced by libertarianism in HS and early college. (Actually, I really liked anarchism, but libertarian seemed more do-able.) A lot of my structure of thought came from reading Heinlein (v. libertarian) and from listening to my dad (who read Heinlein when he was younger).

But as I got older, I realized the "the invisible hand" of the market could not guarantee everyone a healthy and productive life, and that we need backup mechanisms in place.

I'm with you up until the last sentence above. I was libertarian. I've concluded we need just enough government regulation to ensure a level playing field (no insider trading, etc.), but no more. The more "backup mechanisms" the government provides, the less people feel responsible for themselves (the government should take care of me) and the more risky behavior they engage in (they don't have to pay the consequences).

Where do my beliefs come from?

I watched my father, who claimed to be a conservative, die living on welfare because he couldn't be bothered to find a job.

I watched my father, who claimed to be a conservative, sue nearly every family member or business associate he ever had, not because he had a case, but because he wanted money. I don't know most of my extended family because of my father. He sued, cheated or outright stole money from nearly everyone he was related to (myself included).

Then I learned there was this political party that says it's okay not to work, the government will provide for you as long as you have a somewhat believable excuse. They just so happen to be endorsed by the very same trial attorneys that helped my father to alienate my family, then took what little money he wrongly won as their compensation.

[nostatic]

the more I learn the less I know

[svandamme]

Originally posted by nostatic
the more I learn the less I know

that too

guess it makes sense in a Zen kinda way

[Dantilla]

The United States of America has become the greatest economic power this planet has ever seen because of an experiment that started over two hundred years ago called "freedom".

While on the surface, communism has some nice sounding ideas. But guarenteing equal outcomes supresses the instinctive human desire to achieve. Who would care about a football game if at the end the winning side was forced to give points to the loosers to they would be "equal". Why would a factory worker work hard when the slackard next to him is going to get the exact same pay no matter what?

Man has an inner need to achieve. Our system allows that need to reach it's full potential, far more than any other form of government.

My father was a big influence. One of eight kids, on a poor farm in Minnesota, he ended up working his tail off, building income producing property. He truely used his potential, and achieved great things. Under most forms of government, he would have stayed one of the thousands of poor farmers.

Unfortunately, equal opportunity does not mean equal outcome. The one thing I disagree with our constitution about is the phrase "all men are created equal". We are not. There are those that do not have the mental capability to reach much of anything. They need help.

I am in the fortunate position of supplying my family with a nice life, and also having the ability to help others. Not through taxes, but by giving to those around me where I see a need.

There is an elderly lady I know. Occasionally, I go visit her, and usually hand her a couple hundred bucks as I leave. She is on a fixed income, and a bit extra goes a long way. I give to her with no strings attached, She can spend it any way she pleases. She doesn't go play bingo with it. She usually buys clothes or gifts for her grandchildren. I know the money is well spent. All two hundred.

If that same $200 was taxed from me, first, government employees need to get paid for dispersing the money. Then, other government employees write forms telling her what the money is to be used for. Then some more government employees are there to audit what she did with the $12.47 that she got after all the government employees got paid.

Government is neccessary. It serves vital roles. But the limits the founding fathers put on the government should be strictly followed.

Caring for the poor is not the government's job. It's MY job. Unfortunately, too many wealthy people do not see it that way. I think a social safety net is a good idea. The current systems are pretty messed up, but I can't offer a good solution off the top of my head. I guess I'll continue to pay my taxes, and give an old lady more cash.

That's enough rambling thoughts for now.......

[Jim Richards]

Originally posted by nostatic
the more I learn the less I know

and nostatic is my mentor.

[nostatic]

Originally posted by Jim Richards
and nostatic is my mentor.

cocktails and butt darts for all!

[svandamme]

Originally posted by Jim Richards
and nostatic is my mentor.

what is the sound of one conrod knocking ?

[bt1211]

Legion, I dont know you but your last paragraph is a classic example of displaced anger.

I am not being a jerk. You should talk with someone about what your father did to you.

I am sure most of us, as grown men, have never had that "talk" with or about our fathers. I can say for myself that the lack of that "talk" has coloured my life.

[nostatic]

everyone could benefit from a good shrink.

the ones that think they don't need it are the ones that need it the most...

[bigchillcar]

mine has apparently deserted me..got a call that i've been given to a 'new resident'. god help us all..

[lendaddy]

Originally posted by nostatic
everyone could benefit from a good shrink.

the ones that think they don't need it are the ones that need it the most...

Evidenced by what people I know have become post "shrinkage" I guess there aren't very many good ones

[nostatic]

true, there are plenty of bad shrinks (like any other profession).

Or maybe they've changed and you've stayed in the same place. It's all about relative prespective

[Jim Richards]

So, who's ready for another drink?