Ceramic Tile removal...advice sought

[RickM]

I'm planning the replacement of a floor here at home and it's looking like it's going to be a bear.

350+ sq feet of 5x10" cramic tile. The PO masterfully focked up the install as the spacing doesn't run evenly and o top of that I have sevaral layers of fun underneath. Firslt is the tile then cement over lathe. The lathe looks to be attached to luann of thin plywood and that's over at least one layer of some type of (linoleum?) tile. Yikes.

A few people said to lay a towel over the tile and smack with a sledge, remove the broken tile and then rip up the lathe and cement. Next take a circular saw and cut the plywood and tile underneath into panels and rip up.

Well I took the biggest hammer I have (in pic) and smacked a few time as hard as I could. I was a fraid I'd crack the hammer. Well after that all I have are a few divots in the surface of the tile.

So, do I get a much bigger sledge or should I rent a small Bosch type jack hammer? If I go the electric hammer route should I buy a Harbor Freight deal as it will end up costing just a bit less than an extended rental?

What's the braintrust say?

[RickM]

Having problems with site....sorry for duplicate posts.

[RickM]

Here's a pic of ground zero...

The two or so bottom tiles lifted easily...not so for the others.

[KFC911]

Why are you using a 'toy hammer' ...get a BFH (I'm thinkin' 5-7lb sledge) and go at it....

[Kevin Taylor]

Go rent an electric had held jack hammer.

K.T.
1973 911E 2.4 MFI
1983 911 SC
1965 Devin "D" - 1967 912 Power Plant

[RickM]

Heh heh...I figured I'd try a test spot to guage the amount of effort. Will a 5-7 head make it that much easier? Or should I just go with the electric hammer and chisel. I'm sure many here have dealt with this type of job.

[KFC911]

The 5-7lb head would make a huge difference, but considering your task at hand, renting something like this makes more sense:

http://www.homedepot.com/prel80/HDUS/EN_US/diy_main/pg_diy.jsp?CNTTYPE=PROD_META&CNTKEY=misc%2fsearchResults.jsp&BV_SessionID=@@@@1518611138.1164134219@@@@&BV_EngineID=cccgaddjhedehfkcgelceffdfgidgnk.0&MID=9876

Nevermind that link, if you're interested, go to homedepot.com and search on: Universal Tool
Pneumatic Tile Stripper

Model UT8630L

[tobster1911]

Originally posted by KC911
Why are you using a 'toy hammer' ...get a BFH (I'm thinkin' 5-7lb sledge) and go at it....

+1

"If at first you don't succeed, Hit it again harder and with a bigger hammer."

Also try hitting along the edge of the exposed tiles with a chisel of some type. Maybe even a big screwdriver.

[Dan in Pasadena]

Rick, Your timing on asking this question is perfect.

I JUST had to some tile in my kitchen due to a screw up (mine!) in installing this tile floor three years ago. I blocked my dishwasher in, Doh! Anyway, I've had to do the job you're contemplating and though it is work, it isn't all that hard.

First buy GOOD knee pads and at Home Depot or similar buy a tile blade for your Skil-type saw. It has no teeth per se but cuts tile - even dry very agressively. The blade I am talking about is about $25. Using a spray bottle for some minimal lubrication without running a water source into the house, I cut along the grout lines (minimizes wear on the tile blade) then I cut at least once diagonally through the tile face, preferable an X pattern. U a duo of a short pry bar/crow bar and a masonry chisel. These are broad, maybe three inches across used by masons (my Dad) to cut brick or block) They are also fairly cheap, you might have to get one at a masonry supply yard if not HOme Depot. And they can be resharpened on your bench grinder.

Now focus on getting up a tile and thereafter use the chisel sort of under each tile as you go along rather than try to chisel through the face of the tile. You'll get used to the "touch" you have to go at the tiles with and fall into a rythm. Once youv'e gotten it mostly broken up and picked up, then switch to a wood blade and cut the underlayment. Be VERY careful you don't cut thorugh the floor joists - I am assumig you have a raised foundation. If not and the underlayment is laid on concrete (not sure why anyone would do that, but I've seen some amazing stuff!) make sure you don't cut through the plywood into the concrete or you'll be replacing blades often!

Oh and P.S. The old linoleum? It has asbestos in it. It is completely safe in my estimation as long as its not "friable" meaning the fibers aren't floating around you in the air. Best to expose it, cut through it with a SHARP box cutter type knife and place the pieces in a dumpster. Wear a good dust mask, ear and eye protection for all of this of course - yes, you're gonna sweat like a 'mutha. Drop me a line if you've got more questions.

[Dan in Pasadena]

By the way, the "Fred Flintstone" approach using the BFH as most guys are recommending above? You're gonna get REAL tired, REAL fast and make one hell of a mess. Good luck!

[KFC911]

Hey, I live in the south. In my toolbox, I have: Duct tape, WD-40, a BFH, and a screwdriver...what else was I going to suggest?

[RickM]

Good info, gentlemen...thanks.

Dan, when I spoke to my brother in law (a builder) I suggested the method you speak of and he said the saw would create a huge amont of dust. what was you experience like regarding this?

[jorian]

What ever you use to break up tile with will create a lot of dust. I used an air chisel with my compressor. Worked great but created a lot of dust. Seal the area off with plastic if possible.

[David]

I"ll second the air chisel. When I removed mine, I put up plastic and left a window open with a fan facing out.

[NICKG]

i have an electric jack hammer if you need to use one...let me know

[Dan in Pasadena]

Hi Rick, The tile blade I am talking about does produce some dust, I won't lie to you, but that's why you use the spray bottle or water source - of course along with the purpose of cooling the blade.

Look, there's no method of removing tile that DOESN'T make a mess as far as I am concerned. Of course you can place or tape your shop vac hose right next to the blade and that will help a lot. As for "huge" amounts of dust? No, I just did this (granted only a few tiles) and only had to dust afterward. Good luck with whatever you choose.

[JavaBrewer]

I can't believe nobody suggested this yet - hire the job out. I've put down a couple homes worth of tile and wood. The two worst jobs are demo/prep of existing (non carpet) floors and mixing/carrying thinset. 350+ sq/ft of tile is alot when you're swinging a hammer not to mention the mess and work of carrying out broken up tile and lathe. It add's up fast. My last job I paid guys with electric demo hammers $3.00 sq/ft to remove tile, grind the slab clean, and dump the mess. Best money I ever spent as I started the job fresh and happy.

[turbo6bar]

Bosch SDS hammer drill with 2-4" wide chisel. You will need to get a few tiles up first and then use the chisel to pry the remaining tiles up. Then, chisel away mortar in a grid pattern. Use a circular saw along your grid lines to cut out sections of plywood. It is tedious work, but you do whatcha gotta do.

If you use a BFH, you're playing against the tile. The tile and thinset have great compressive strength, but are weak in tension. A BFH attacks the compressive strength. A hammer drill with chisel attacks the weakness.


Hmm, just reread your post about cement with lathe. Milwaukee and others make a reciprocating saw blade for plaster. This might be what you need to cut out the underlayment. Be careful with your floor joists.

[trekkor]

Guys...guys?

I will now give you the "REAL" way to tackle this tear out.

First of all, please realize that 350 square feet of mortar bed and tile is very heavy. You need a trailer on site to handle this load.

the tear out is very easy if you use the right tools.
pry bar- really big pry bar. 3 feet long with a tapered blade at the end and a hitting surface at the other.

after you have a small entry point on your floor run the pry bar between the mortar bed and the floor underneath. Hit the bar a few times to get it to move under the lath and mortar with a 3# sledge. ( single jack )

You can lift up several square feet at a time. have a pair of snips handy to cut away the sections connected by the lath.

It's called a "floated floor" the lath is just stapled or ligtly nail to the subfloor. The weight of the mortar which could very well be 3/4" thick or more is holding it down and in place.

Don't worry about the tile, it will all break apart very easily. the hard pard will be carrying the big chunks out. Protect doorways and walls in the path you exit. Carry the big chunks with a helper.

Vacuum frequently. drink lots of water and wear proper gloves, ear and eye protection.

Two pros will get this done in 1-2 days.

There is no faster or easier way...period.

KT

[trekkor]

the other floors are even easier to remove.

Set your Skil saw to a depth just a hair deeper than ALL the surfaces to be removed above the subfloor. You may have to remove a small section to measure this or if there were floor registers for heating and air you can look there.

Either attach the shop vac hose to the saw at the point where the dust comes off the blade or better yet have a helper vacuum along as you cut.

Cut 2x2 foot squares all throughout your floor.

using the same prybar mentioned above, pop up the squares.

it will be difficult at the seams and if a ridiculas amount of fasteners was used .

Have a smaller pry bar and hammer handy for stubborn areas and nails.

if staples were used, the best tool for lifting them out is a pair of diagonal/wire cutters. grab the staple and pry it out.

I also like the hooked end of a wire fence tool to pull out staples.

Sometimes pulling the staples can take longer than the old floor removal.

KT