Cars that tattle-tale on the driver...

[dd74]

Are there are cars now on the market which monitor a car and whether it has been driven spiritedly?

I've read more than one or two persons on this forum state that BMW has a tracking system embedded in their computers which can monitor how a car has been utilized, particularly in the event of a track day.

If this is true with BMW, it must be true with other cars.

So, the question stands: is this true? And if so, would anyone have a list of these cars that "rat out" their drivers?

[pwd72s]

Yes, this is true...a "black box" if you will that can give a readout of the last 30 seconds of driving before a crash, etc. I don't have a complete list, but I do know that all GM vehicles have had a "black box" for several years now. It connected to the airbag system.

[dd74]

Originally posted by pwd72s
Yes, this is true...a "black box" if you will that can give a readout of the last 30 seconds of driving before a crash, etc. I don't have a complete list, but I do know that all GM vehicles have had a "black box" for several years now. It connected to the airbag system.

Ah! That's right. I pulled a blank on the black box.

What I'm thinking more of is a system that records tire spin or how many times an engine's rev limiter has been bumped, and, with the next service call, reveals this, causing the warranty to be jeopardized.

[pwd72s]

The way I heard it, BMW is indeed denying warranty claims based on history readouts...so, perhaps they record more than we've been told?

[widebody911]

A friend of mine has an elise, and it tracks your top nspeed runs, RPM hits, launches, etc.

[skipdup]

In the mid 90's, I knew a guy with a corvette. He said when he was picking his car up, after being serviced, the service manager asked him why he was going XX (I forget the number) mph in reverse. In fact, my friend had gone a excessive speed in reverse and evidently, the dealership had the ability to "read" the data. I don't remember any issues with warranty.

- Skip

[dd74]

Originally posted by widebody911
A friend of mine has an elise, and it tracks your top nspeed runs, RPM hits, launches, etc.

Interesting - because the Elise is openly touted as a track day car. The only reason I can think of for a computer to track such things as speed runs, RPM hits, and launches is in case the mechanicals break under stress.

Same with the Corvette Skip mentions, although XX in reverse is more "Rockford Files" material, than track duty.

I don't know - this revelation (a revelation to me, at least) makes me second guess new cars and my love for track driving.

[450knotOffice]

My first reaction was to be disturbed. However, after some thought, I have to point out that we are talking about a warranty here. A warranty basically forces a manufacturer to fix something on the car that broke due to a manufacturer defect, not due to the operator exceeding the car's limitations.

Do whatever you want with the car but don't cry when the manufacturer won't honor the warranty because it can be proven that you abused the car.

I don't have a warranty with either of my two Porsches. If I break them, it's my wallet that will be affected.

[pwd72s]

George Orwell was an optimist...

[dd74]

Originally posted by 450knotOffice
My first reaction was to be disturbed. However, after some thought, I have to point out that we are talking about a warranty here. A warranty basically forces a manufacturer to fix something on the car that broke due to a manufacturer defect, not due to the operator exceeding the car's limitations.

Do whatever you want with the car but don't cry when the manufacturer won't honor the warranty because it can be proven that you abused the car.

I don't have a warranty with either of my two Porsches. If I break them, it's my wallet that will be affected.

Excellent point! I return to you the Mitsubishi EVO, which is advertised as having the similar, if not the same engineering as their rally cars.

Now, what is a rally car? A car that is undoubtedly fast, handles well, and races on dirt as well as road.

Thus, the car has been suggested as a car that is capable of high performance driving.

IMO, high performance driving involves striking the rev limiter now and then, hard turns, hard braking, etc. If the EVO is sold as a car made for this driving, it should endure it will no effect on the warranty.

Modifications are different, of course. But putting the car through the paces it is advertised as capable of, track day work shouldn't be considered abuse.

However, rumor was Mitsubishi refused at points to replace blown engines in their EVOs if they were blown at the track. Period. Some say Mitsubishi went as far as to have "spies" photograph license plates, and record them in a databank. One time at Willow Springs, I saw first hand several EVOs with taped-over plates.

[skipdup]

Originally posted by dd74
... Some say Mitsubishi went as far as to have "spies" photograph license plates, and record them in a databank. One time at Willow Springs, I saw first hand several EVOs with taped-over plates.

I saw several cars at a DE last weekend with taped license plates - but mostly porsche. Was wondering what is was about.

"Rockford Files"

- Skip

[Racerbvd]

Just one more reason for me to stay with Old School cars

[dd74]

Originally posted by Racerbvd
Just one more reason for me to stay with Old School cars

Yeah. But old school sometimes gets a bit...well...old...

[artplumber]

Originally posted by widebody911
A friend of mine has an elise, and it tracks your top nspeed runs, RPM hits, launches, etc.

And lotus has voided warranties based on the data. IIRC one doesn't have to even exceed the redline, just prolonged running at high rpm will do it....

[Jims5543]

I was talking with the owner of a local speed shop. He told me a story about a customer with a Ford Deisel Truck that was chipped. The guy decided to try to race someone while towing his boat and lifted the heads off the block.

He pulled the chip and took it to the dealership. The service dept hooked a computer up to the truck and could tell the fuel, timing and boost had been altered, voided the warranty.

The guy had to buy his own engine.

[dd74]

Jeez. These stories you guys are coming up with are SCREWED.

[450knotOffice]

I agree with you that if a limit has not been exceeded, then the manufacturer ought to pay up. Bouncing off the rev limiter, cornering hard, etc, does not constitute exceeding a limit as far as I'm concerned.

However, if the warranty expressly limits liability while the car is on a race track, then I don't think the manufacturer should be expected to pay up in the event of a loss while at a track.

If you were the manufacturer of a car and you warranted it free from defects during normal use, but expressly required that the car not be taken to the track, would you want to pay for damage incurred while the car was at the track? I wouldn't.

A warranty is a give and take. If you agree to the terms of the warranty, and comply with those terms, I'll pay up. But if you don't comply with the terms, I can't be expected to pay.

[Jims5543]

I call all of this the Audi 5000 affect.

People sued the hell out of Audi for not knowing how to drive so the rest of the companies CYA'd.

We can only blame the average consumer for this.

I tracked my MINI and knew they would be able to tell. But wait I bought a sporty car and even the local dealership sponsoers MINI track days.

And look at Mazda, they have a Mazdaspeed program to entice their owners to race their cars offering discounts on parts for racing, although I am unsure what they would do if you tore up your engine or tranny at a track day.

Conversely Mitsubishi was checking local SCCA Autocross results and voiding Evo owners warranties.

So go figure.

I'll just keep tracking my 20 year old RX7 and not worry about it and refrain from driving like an idiot in my newer cars.

[Jims5543]

Originally posted by 450knotOffice
I agree with you that if a limit has not been exceeded, then the manufacturer ought to pay up. Bouncing off the rev limiter, cornering hard, etc, does not constitute exceeding a limit as far as I'm concerned.

However, if the warranty expressly limits liability while the car is on a race track, then I don't think the manufacturer should be expected to pay up in the event of a loss while at a track.

If you were the manufacturer of a car and you warranted it free from defects during normal use, but expressly required that the car not be taken to the track, would you want to pay for damage incurred while the car was at the track? I wouldn't.

A warranty is a give and take. If you agree to the terms of the warranty, and comply with those terms, I'll pay up. But if you don't comply with the terms, I can't be expected to pay.

Then car companies like Mazda, Porsche, Mercedes, Audi, Toyota should not brag about and show their sports cars racing around a track in the commercials.

[dd74]

Jim - it's Mazda and Mini who I am exclusively interested in as one of the two may be an eventual purchase.

RX8 or Mini Cooper S.

I would want either car to see a track day now and then.