Older BMW for Son Advice - 1985-1995

[Don Plumley]

My son is learning to drive. (Talk about cognitive dissonance, sitting on the right side without a steering wheel in front of you.) Anyway, I'll be needing to pick up another car that he can have use of once he gets his license. It won't be "his" car but a family car that he'll have use of. Of course, we really don't need a car, but assuming he's gonna get in an accident, I rather it be a older, less valuable car (that is safe, of course).

He is going to contribute a fair percentage to the cost and upkeep from his savings. And that way, he gets a say on what we get since he'll be a partner in the car. Otherwise I'd buy an Orange Volvo 240.

So he's been looking at e36 BMW's (we both like e30's, I was hoping for airbags). Our idea is to find one that is a little broken, and fix it together so he learns to work on it, invests some sweat equity into the car, etc.

He just found a couple of 1987 535i - I was not looking for a 5 series - that are really, really cheap. Other than the usual caveats for a 20 year old car with a million miles, does anyone have any advice, opinion or otherwise on this era BMW?

Thanks!

[Tim Hancock]

IMO, the older 5 series are ugly compared to an E36 3 series or a '97 and newer 5 series. I guess it depends on if you need to spend, under 2k or under 5k. From my own experience with my E36 325i, I can vouch that the in-line BMW sixes are capable of putting on lots of miles and mine still feels relatively tight and reliable for a 270,000 mile car. If you are the DIY type and you choose the car wisely, I think you will be happy with either, from a drivability/reliability standpoint.

[fastpat]

Originally posted by Don Plumley
My son is learning to drive. (Talk about cognitive dissonance, sitting on the right side without a steering wheel in front of you.) Anyway, I'll be needing to pick up another car that he can have use of once he gets his license. It won't be "his" car but a family car that he'll have use of. Of course, we really don't need a car, but assuming he's gonna get in an accident, I rather it be a older, less valuable car (that is safe, of course).

He is going to contribute a fair percentage to the cost and upkeep from his savings. And that way, he gets a say on what we get since he'll be a partner in the car. Otherwise I'd buy an Orange Volvo 240.

So he's been looking at e36 BMW's (we both like e30's, I was hoping for airbags). Our idea is to find one that is a little broken, and fix it together so he learns to work on it, invests some sweat equity into the car, etc.

He just found a couple of 1987 535i - I was not looking for a 5 series - that are really, really cheap. Other than the usual caveats for a 20 year old car with a million miles, does anyone have any advice, opinion or otherwise on this era BMW?

Thanks!

I have both an 1987 e28 535is and a 1990 e30 325i, the e28 is relatively more complex than the e30, but both are miles less complicated than the cars built after 1992. The first two years of the e36 are known to have electronic issues, same applies to the e34's of the same time period. e34 five series ran from 1989 to 1995, the last year had the six speed 540i's, with the 4.0 engine. Those would run more than your upper $5k limit if in good condition. There's two e34's with six cylinder engines, one with the older 2.7 liter M20 engine, and one with the newer twin cam engine that was fitted in the e36's. I'm not sure, but I think air bags began in the 1993 model year for both the e36 and e34.

If you want any more specifics, let me know.

[Don Plumley]

Thanks Pat! My preference is to find a late e30 or mid e36 with mechanical problems and use it as a fun project car for the next four months or so.

Are the AT's problematic?

[wludavid]

Pat, actually the last year for the 2.7L 6cyl was 1988. It died with the e28. The e34 had an M20 2.5L in 1989 and 1990, and the 2.5L m50 (twin cam) in 1991 and later.

The 1990 and 1991 e30's had airbags, Don.

ATs are no more problematic than any other 20 year old autos. But, the upside is that they are almost free in the used market. There are also ways to swap a manual in.

[fastpat]

Originally posted by Don Plumley
Thanks Pat! My preference is to find a late e30 or mid e36 with mechanical problems and use it as a fun project car for the next four months or so.

Are the AT's problematic?

From a mechanical view, no more so than any other auto tranny. From a performance point of view, they're pretty doggy. Only four speeds instead of five, pretty slushy function; the manuals are rock solid, from Getrag. The issue with my e30 is a leaking rear main seal which has ruined the clutch friction surface. So, this spring the car gets the tranny out, clutch out and tossed, new rear main seal, flywheel resurfaced, new pilot bearing, new clutch kit, and a new Guibo flex joint. Technically not difficult, but lot's of remove and replace. I've already install an e36 M3 gearshift lever, a poor man's short shift kit, $40.00. I'll install new shift lever bushing on the tranny end while it's out further tightening up the shift feel.

There is an e30 you might find appropriate if you can find a decent example of one, the '91-'92 318is. four cylinder, 125 hp, twin cam engine, five speed, cloth sport seats, occasionally limited slip. Most can be had for $3-4K. Very well balanced, but not as powerful as a 325i.

Since you live in the Bay area, I can put you in touch with some BMW folks there if you wish.

[wludavid]

Originally posted by fastpat
There is an e30 you might find appropriate if you can find a decent example of one, the '91-'92 318is. four cylinder, 125 hp, twin cam engine, five speed, cloth sport seats, occasionally limited slip. Most can be had for $3-4K. Very well balanced, but not as powerful as a 325i.

I was going to make the same recommendation. The 4cyl is a great engine, and it pairs nicely with the e30 chassis. Plus, not much horsepower than a 16-year-old will get in trouble with.

[fastpat]

Originally posted by wludavid
Pat, actually the last year for the 2.7L 6cyl was 1988. It died with the e28. The e34 had an M20 2.5L in 1989 and 1990, and the 2.5L m50 (twin cam) in 1991 and later.

The 1990 and 1991 e30's had airbags, Don.

ATs are no more problematic than any other 20 year old autos. But, the upside is that they are almost free in the used market. There are also ways to swap a manual in.

No, as far as I know, none of the e30's had air bags, David. My 1990 doesn't, and I've never seen one that does. Of course, I've not seen them all.

Here's the steering wheel I fitted to mine, but there's an airbag steering wheel shown, but as I say I've never seen one actually installed.

Looks like the last build month for the 318is was April 1991.

[jim72911t]

Don,
Is your son a "car guy?" What I mean by that is does he want his first car to be something that he can enjoy learning how to drive and work on, including doing some mods? Does he have aspirations to drive on the track someday with his father?

If the answers to any of these questions are yes, I'd recommend an E30. They are stone reliable, easy to work on and mod, and available for cheap, especially ones that need some work. I really like the way my E30 drives more than the E36 (even though I'm in the market for an E36 M3, but that's another story ), and I have spent quite a few street and track miles in both.

Since you need airbags, look for a '90-'91 325i or 325is. Should be able to find something decent for less than $3k, and something a little nicer for $3-$5K.

Good luck and keep him safe,
Jim

[wludavid]

I have seen e30s with airbags. I didn't think they were uncommon but I could be wrong.

1991 was the only model year for the 318i and 318is, but the 318i convertible was available as a '92 also.

[wludavid]

Pat, btw, I am jealous of your M-tech 2 wheel. I just installed an m-tech 1 wheel tonight and it's a ton better than the standard issue plastic one.

[VincentVega]

I picked up a 95 318is last spring and love it. I had a 95 m3 for a while and actually like the 318 more; strange I know. They arent much of a project, but are cheap! 318's are cheaper to insure, get better mpg and mine was ~3k. Brakes, struts, belts and some fluids and it's good as new.

[fastpat]

Originally posted by wludavid
Pat, btw, I am jealous of your M-tech 2 wheel. I just installed an m-tech 1 wheel tonight and it's a ton better than the standard issue plastic one.

I wanted one of the M-Tech I's, but when I looked around the one's I found were too ratty to mess with. At about taht time, I found out that the M-Tech II wheel for the e34 sans airbag (don't ask me, but they exist) fit my e28 so I bought a new one. Then I found out that there was one for the e30, so I bought a new one of those as well. The fit and feel is great, and I like the looks, a little more modern, but not too.

Here's the one in the e28, I don't have a photo of the one in the e30, but they're almost the same.

[Nostril Cheese]

I've had two E30's. An 85 325e and a 91 325is. Awesome cars. Fun to drive. Easy to work on. I also suggest the 318is. They are actually a bit better handling than the 6 cyl models. Plus they have the nicer body colored bumpers. Tires are kind of a *****. Stock is 14" Thats about the only bad thing.

Bet Wayne will be in here any second......

[Nostril Cheese]

FYI, all 90-91 E30 models had airbags. makes changing out an ignition cylinder fun....

[fastpat]

That's correct, stock was 14x6's, but there were a couple of optional 15x7 wheels available from BMW. They're probably still available, though not too cheap. Figure something like $1000-1100 for a set of five brand new.

The Style 10 and the Style 5 will both fit any e30 except the M3. You wil see a 16x7.5 inch Style 5, but that will only fit the M3's five bolt hub.

[the]

Late 80s was a Golden Era for BMW, IMO.

Cars are very durable, comfortable, fun to drive and easy to work on.

Why an automatic? They are much more fun to drive with a 5 speed. The autos are slushy, they kill the spirit of the car. They are also the biggest mechanical weakness. Anything automatic trans over 120K miles can die any day, with no notice. The clutch pack just gives out and you are done. So there's really no way to assess the health or remaining life of the auto trans. The manual transmissions can go forever with decent treatment and tend to give lots of warning before they go (slowing synchros, harder shifting, etc). If the car shifts fine on your test drive, chances are high you've got many, many years of life left in it.

I wouldn't waste the the time with a 318. These cars have all (4 and 6 cyl) depreciated so much, it isn't worth it, you can find a 6 for the same price by just looking a bit. The BMW inline 6 smoothness and goodness is legendary.

Like with a 911, look hard and buy the best one you can find. They are ALL cheap now, and the best condition, best cared for ones are the best bargains, for the buyer. Don't worry about not having little things to fix, these are strong cars, but still close to 20 years, and lots of stuff wears and needs replacement.

[Don Plumley]

Thanks to all for the advice and information.

Best reason for a slushbox is he is a beginning driver. For the first few years, focus on the driving (for his skill/coordination level). Shifting will come later.

[ERAU944]

you say that about the manual, but if your child is a boy (i'm really not trying to be sexist here, its just the facts), he already has some fairly decent coordination. i was driving my father's '83 944 (with 18K miles on it) to school some days when i was 17. now, i wasn't full up on how to use the car, but the operation of the drivetrain didn't elude me. also, if he's going to be working on the car with you, that would be a fabulous time to expand his knowledge of how everything works. i wish i had taken the time to learn all of that when i was his age. go with the manual, that way if he has any inkling to take the car to the track he won't have to find another one, or do a swap.

i dont know anything about bmw's but like everyone says, with any car, buy the best example you can find, it pays off!

good luck, and remember, WWFSMD?

[nostatic]

I'm actually pondering ditching the GTI and finding a clean e30 with a 5-speed so I no longer have a car payment.