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America’s Injustice System Is Criminal
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Hell Belcho
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Oz
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I accuse goody pat!
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Anyone can convict a guilty person. When I was prosecuting I was always most proud of my work when I convicted an innocent guy. That's when you know you are really using your skills as a lawyer. It's kind of like beating a faster car in a race.
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Things like the guy in Atlanta that was recently arrested and spent 3 days in jail for not payin child support...... and he doesn't have any kids!! He has a similar first and last name to a guy wanted for not paying child support, but has a different birthdate, address, and physical attributes, yet they arrested him anyway.
Combined with a lot of wrong house drug raids... Yeah, we have problems.
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Re: America’s Injustice System Is Criminal
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Not funny. |
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Banned
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His comments were imaginative, and on a different topic would have been very funny, but not on this topic, and doubly so because he was a prosecutor.
These numbers should make any US prosecutor soul search, not talk smack. |
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Be that as it may, you're quite right, we Americans have to remedy this, and quickly too. The momentum is exactly the opposite today, so simply reversing current trends is a start. Roberts book The Tyranny of Good Intentions is a good read, as is Judge Andrew Napolitano's The Constitution in Exile: How the Federal Government Has Seized Power by Rewriting the Supreme Law of the Land, Judge Napolitano is a frequent guest on FauxNews, one of the few I can stomach for long. Last edited by fastpat; 12-12-2006 at 08:26 AM.. |
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Good luck with that...
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Hell Belcho
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According to the International Center for Prison Studies at King’s College in London, the US has 700,000 more of its citizens incarcerated than China, a country with a population four to five times larger than that of the US, and 1,330,000 more people in prison than crime-ridden Russia.
I agree that there is a problem here and you hear about it all of the time. I cant help but wonder, do the lower stats in China and Russia look like this due to lack of enforcement OR in China and Russia do people just disappear, never to be seen again???
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Yes that was humor. Don't worry, I am both a lawyer and former prosecutor and I had much to much to do dealing with guilty people to spend time on the innocent. My response comes from a time I came back from losing a court of appeals case as a young lawyer after getting a conviction at trial. It was important to me and I took the reversal hard. One of the supervisors tried to cheer me up by saying that anyone could convict the guilty, but it was hard to convict an innocent guy. My guy wasn't innocent, I had two independent witnesses, but the court reversed the conviction anyway.
This thread reminded me of that case. I enjoy Pat's rantings, he reminds me of an uncle I grew up with, and I knew that my response would get under his skin. Which is only fair, because usually his posts are designed to get under other people's skin. The Department of Justice does study wrongful convictions. Their best estimate is that between one and five percentof people incarcerated did not commit the crime they are in jail for. That number has remained fairly constant, and is probably the accuracy rate of our jury system. The number of innocent people in jail reflects the large number of people in America who are in jail. The DOJ does not have any bright ideas about how to reduce the proportion of innocent people in jail, other than to make sure the standard procedural safeguards are in place. I have thought a lot about it too, and I haven't come up with any better bright ideas. I have long ago decided that the better side of any argument is the other side of Pat's, which is why he casts dispersions in my directions. If anyone laughed at the thread suggesting that killing all lawyers is a good idea, then my humor should be like water off a duck's back.
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So what are you saying friend...that we should accept as much as a 5% wrongful imprisonment rate because 'we're doing our best'?
If that's the case, 'your best' sucks, and Shakespeare was surely justified in his comments. I dont even know how you can do a job where 1 in 20 lives that you're intentionally destroying belongs to an innocent man. |
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If you have any better ideas than America's jury trial system, go ahead and suggest them. Our confrontational system gets it right betwwen 95 and 99% of the time. I did not say I was satisfied with that percentage; no one is satisfied with anything less that 100% justice. I just said I don't know a better way to get it right more of the time. That's why we have well paid public defenders, judges, courts of appeals, the right to habeus corpus appeals to the US district court, and lawyer-funded and volunteer-staffed organizations like Project Innocence. I venture to say that in my part of the country where the court system is well run and very professional that the false conviction rate is considerably lower. I know the judicial systems in the states where I am licensed compare very favorably to the systems in certain southern states.
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I work in the inner city, so i know full well how bad crack, crank, herioine, and coke are, and would probably not agree to the legalization of those drugs under almost any circumstances, but certainly marijuana has been proven to be almost totally harmless, and in reality(or at least according to popular legend) was only banned so DuPont could sell his nylon rope in a 'captive' market, so to speak. How many people go to jail on pot offenses every year? 100,000? More? Time to put an end to those 'crimes' and focus on more important crimes i think. And i think we need to move away- far, far away- from the militant mindset of modern law enforcement. I am also dubious of most gun control laws as well. One thing the article did mention that i thought was interesting was the 'pile on charges to force a plea' phenomenon. This strikes me as a highly dishonest intellectual process, designed to 'save the state the time' to actually PROVE a man is guilty, and extorting a man into accepting a lesser charge to avoid having his entire life wrongly STOLEN from him by the Gov't. These things are only abstract to us. All accross america hundreds of thousands of innocent people are in jail right now....and they will still be there on Xmas morning. Some will never breathe the free air again. Ever. Imagine it was you. There has to be a better way than we're doing it. Edit: Gambling laws are ridiculously stupid too, and for that matter, so is prostitution. I think i just removed a million arrests plus a year from your case log...in 5 minutes. ![]() Last edited by m21sniper; 12-12-2006 at 07:19 PM.. |
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Re: Re: America’s Injustice System Is Criminal
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It is no wonder to me that we have more people convicted and incarcerated in this country given two facts:
1. We have more freakin laws that any other country. Isn't it amazing that, for a relatively young republic, we have buried ourselves in law upon law. No one can make much sense out of most of them and once passed, they never, ever go away. How can one not run afoul of some law? 2. Our "War on Drugs" is a miserable failure and the government has to have someone to hang out to dry. I think the new food related laws are really part of the war on drugs. Can't you see some pot smoker being arrested for eating a twinkie on his couch? We couldn't find any drugs, but the defendant was eating a twinkie that contained trans-fat. Book him Danno.
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Wars = $
War on drugs, terror, fat, whatever........ The incarceration biz is also big $. Legislators should have to remove 2 laws for every new one enacted.
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