Willow Springs lap times?

[450knotOffice]

(This was also posted in the racing forum but I know this OT forum is MUCH busier so I might get better response here, and it is OT after all.)

Guys, I'm just curious about the lap times of various types of cars at Willow Springs. It just seems interesting to me. I know that Jack is pulling 1:29's in BBII, as is Mike G (aka, "Ted"). I wonder what full race modern Cup cars are doing, for example, or the GT3 RSR's, or the GT1 class Corvettes or Aston's, etc.

Do any of you guys care to post what you've seen or heard of? This could be interesting.

I was there a couple of months ago and had a blast. Jack better watch out because I think I might have gotten near 2:00 in my stock 996. Watch out Jack! Here I come!

[motion]

I did 1:17s back in the day in my Formula Atlantic. I think the FA record is something crazy like a 1:10.

Found this: http://www.willowspringsraceway.com/trackinformation/records.asp

Not sure how up to date it is.

[450knotOffice]

Thanks Richard.

Looking at the list, I see Craig T. Nelson's name as number four all time in a World Sports Car with a 1:10.001 lap time back in August '97. Wow. I had forgotten that in addition to acting, he was (is?) a competitive driver.

Did you ever try some off-roading in the FA car out there, Richard?

[motion]

Thank God, no. I did go straight off turn 3 in the Formula Ford. When I stopped, I assumed the car was totalled, but it turned out to be fine. Its *really* rough out there!

[Howard Agency]

Scott, this may be more relevant. POC lap records at WSIR.

For reference, 996-997 run in 'M'
Records

[450knotOffice]

Thanks, Howard. Is that class a more or less "stock" class? I'm wondering because the record class times are 1:31, 1:32 and 1:35 (MI, MS, MP). I would think a modded 996 or 997 (stripped, no interior, race slicks, roll cage, motor work, etc., would easily run 1:25's or better.

[Howard Agency]

Originally posted by 450knotOffice
Thanks, Howard. Is that class a more or less "stock" class? I'm wondering because the record class times are 1:31, 1:32 and 1:35 (MI, MS, MP). I would think a modded 996 or 997 (stripped, no interior, race slicks, roll cage, motor work, etc., would easily run 1:25's or better.

Remember these are amateurs who have not made the major jump into wheel to wheel racing, so big differences in driver ability. And you should read the rules section to see what's what with allowed mods.

[S]tock, [I]mproved, [P]repared are all street classes. By the time you strip the car, add slicks, and seriously modify the engine or suspension, you move into the racer classes, and most of these guys are really racing...

A GT2 is just a 996 with better tires and a few goodies

[MMARSH]

I know that Galen Bieker ran a 122.xx in a 997 cup car there a few months ago. For a point of reference, Both Mikes car and Jacks Car would be competing with cup cars because of the mods done to them.

The fastest 911 I've seen has run a 117.xx and was extremely modified. I don't want to butcher the drivers name so I won't even attempt to spell it. I've seen bone stock 996s driven by a pro go 130's.


American Iron Mustangs are running 129.xx on toyos and Factory Five Racing Cobra's run 130.xx on Kuhmo tires and zero areo

[MMARSH]

Originally posted by 450knotOffice
Thanks, Howard. Is that class a more or less "stock" class? I'm wondering because the record class times are 1:31, 1:32 and 1:35 (MI, MS, MP). I would think a modded 996 or 997 (stripped, no interior, race slicks, roll cage, motor work, etc., would easily run 1:25's or better.

Those are times for M (improved) M (stock) M(production)

Stock means basically just that. No R compound tires. usaully no additional wings and spoilers and no removing heavy stuff

Improved allows additional stuff and R compound tires

Production allows alittle more still

you then get into the V classes which then to start to get into more modifications.

After that you get into the GT classes where you are allowed the full monte of stuff.

I'll use Jacks car as a reference because everyone knows his car.

Jacks car would be a GT class simply because it has had the suspension mounting points changed.

Todds car I believe is a either improved or maybe a production class car now if he's changed Torsion bars.

Mikes car in it's original 3.2 RS style configuration was a V class car.

This is a very simplifed explanation of the classes.

[450knotOffice]

This is all very informative guys. Thanks.

[nostatic]

I'm running IP now, but am not fully built out yet (I need headers, more fiberglass, drop weight, etc). Today in the cup race I ran a 1:37 lap. Another guy in my class with more experience and a faster car ran a 1:35. These are SCs with stock motors (well, mine is), some weight loss and good suspension. He probably was running Hoosiers (I'm on RA-1s...that's a second or two right there) and a bigger wing (my ducktail is costing me time in turn 2 and 8/9).

Fast time of the day today was a 1:17 by Eric Olberz. That is in a 700hp (give or take) twin turbo beast. A track record was set in V3 (basically modded Carreras with a big wing and some engine tweaks) at 1:27.

Time to come run with POC Scott...start doing the STS series next year.

[nostatic]

as for the classes, as Mike said, stock means just that. Improved allows some very minor tweaks (eg with my SC I could run bigger sway bars, but not touch the t-bars) and R-compound tires. Prepared allows more suspension work, weight loss, and you have some "points" to play with depending on what mods you want to do. Certain things (like coilovers for older cars) as well as more than 13 points will bump you into V-class. Then it is all about the number and type of mods...and the cars start to get very expensive.

I think Improved class is a great place to run for a couple of years. You can get to really know the car, then move up to R-compound tires and shave some more time, and basically drives the wheels off the car. once you move to Prepared it costs more money and you also have to really get serious about driving. For instance with my car running in Improved I ran a 1:38 lap at Willow. There was time left on the table, but I was on the ragged edge quite a bit. When I upgraded my suspension I actually got slower as I had to relearn the car. Today was the first time I got below that time, and the good news was I did it with almost no wing. But that's no excuse...I still have a lot of work to do on my driving. And now on open passing ;-)

[450knotOffice]

Todd, I have to admit that I do think about the track quite a bit but I know that I'd start to fall down that slippery slope we all know about. I can see this getting out of hand very easily.

I often daydream of selling the black Cab and picking up a beater that I can turn into a track car. However, reality quickly jarrs me back to my senses when I start thinking of the dollars that would quickly start to fly out of my wallet. This is not an inexpensive hobby to be involved in.

For now anyway I'll just enjoy thrashing the 996 around the track a few times a year.

[Chris Tallon]

Great thread guys!!!

I am running the STS series in 07 in KI class. My 73 E has been upgraded to a stock 73 RS with 2.7/E cam, and minor suspension work allowed within the improved catagory. I am running 7's and 8's with 225 Toyo RA/1 rubber up front, and 245 rubber out back. I run SC front brakes and a roll bar. This is a wonderful place to start because cost is down, but the level of fun and competition is up. I was out at Big Willow this past Wed 12/13 and I turned a 1:39:12 the last lap of the day, easily my PBT. The POC track record in KI is near 1:37 flat, so there is an attainable goal there. POC is the place to be for a great driving education and some amazing competition with any class of car. I'm stoked and ready to go.

Chris

[450knotOffice]

I feel good that I dropped down to a 1:50 on my second day ever at the track, any track (in a 996). I had a little traffic too.

Nowhere near a 1:39 but hey, I'm a beginner.