Pilots Detained In Brazil After Crash

[KevinP73]

The entire story is here
I saw this story on the morning news and it made me wonder what the general attitude towards american pilots is around the world.
Knowing we have a couple professional pilots here I thought I'd ask.

[Joeaksa]

They let the pilots go after holding them for over a month, then filed charges the day after they left. Its typical for many third world countries to do this or even hold the pilots for years waiting for the legal system to screw them.

In this case the ATC (air traffic control) put both aircraft in the same airspace at the same time. What has not been explained is why the onboard traffic avoidance (TCAS) did not work and warn them to change direction.

Joe

[m21sniper]

I find it is best to avoid the third world entirely.

When i want exotic i go to the Florida Keys.

LOL...

[dhoward]

Sounds like Legacy Xponder failed. TCAS needs 2 functioning transponders I believe? ATC placed the flights on the same FL on the same airway.
Xponder failure doen't accounce itself to the crew. ATC should have probably said something but who knows. Too bad. I'm sure the Legacy crew feels terrible.

[fingpilot]

This is actually a very interesting story with some real irony as well.

North-east bound private jet correctly level at 37000'. On a computer-generated flight plan from a commercial vendor (the way all of us private guys do it, especially internationally).

South-east bound 737 Flag carrier (Brazillian), also correctly level at 37000', on an airway that intersects and then joins the same airway that the northbound private jet is using.

Both planes in Radar contact (supposedy). There are known 'holes' in the coverage (in the area where the mid-air occured).

Both planes talking to ATC (supposedly). There are known radio gaps along this route (also in the area of the mid-air).

TCAS (the totally onboard system that warns of other aircraft in your vicinity, and displays thier relative location and reported altitude on a cockpit display) was functional on both airplanes. Both airplanes were NEW; the private jet had ferry time only (was on it's delivery flight), the Boeing had less than 400 hours on it.

ATC in Brazil was saying that the transponder was not functioning on the private jet. That was later amended to say that they had lost radar contact (looks the same as failed transponder, no primary returns in that area anyway) with the private jet (known to happen in that area, but not readily admitted to by anyone officially). It so happens that they lost radar contact with the southbound Boeing in the same area, but at the time they said it was because it was already hit by the private jet. Not that they had collided, but that it had been hit by the private jet. The bias in the initial Brazillian reporting was blatant. Brazillian airliner hit by American private jet sells newspapers and deflects criticism of third world infrastructure.

Here is where fate steps in.

TCAS has a nasty habit of 'dropping' tough to resolve contacts. What is the toughest? Head-on, same altitude. Closure speed is 900 knots. 12 miles a minute. Normal range of the TCAS is 25 to 40 miles (2 to 3 minutes total time). Less in certain regimes. The antennas for this system are mounted on top and bottom of the fuselages. Looking for 5-watt signals from other transponders out to 40 miles, with a closure rate of 900 knots. Worst case for the antennas? Side lobe (edge) of the antenna (on the horizon, or same altitude). Hmmm....

Now the sad part. The computer-generated flight plan for the private jet included an altitude change at the VOR beacon where these two airways joined. The private jet's airway changed course at this point, and the change normally would include an altitude level change because the course was now West of North, instead of East of North previously. The pilots were trying to contact ATC to inquire about this, and were not able to raise ATC (known area of poor radio comms).

The rules say no altitude change unless directed by ATC (even with a filed change in the flight plan). There are procedures for lost comms, but no one thought that was the case yet.

Sadly, the private jet pilots were caught in a quandry. They survived the mid-air. ATC was not about to take the blame for what they felt was an error on the part of the private jet guys. They said they never saw the Boeing, or had any warning on the TCAS. No warning was broadcast from the Boeing, and no one survived the crash.

Thankfully, the light of day and International Laws and procedures have come to prevail, and the cause and blame are being put where they belong. The antiquated ATC systems in that part of the world are the problem, now it will be interesting to see if they, and the procedures there will be fixed.

I doubt it.

I fly there enough to know how to handle the hours of lost comms in the interior of South America and Africa. It's sad that the International pilots of the world have had to develop procedures to cope with the antique infrastructure of a lot of this otherwise modern world.

[dhoward]

Thanks for the claification.

[fingpilot]

I got a PM asking about the procedures developed for flying in this part of the world.

When in remote (non-radar) parts of the world, we fly slightly right of course. I enter a say... 4 mile offset to the right of centerline. The thinking being that I won't headon with someone on the opposite heading on the same airway. If I am on an airway and someone going the same direction at a higher or lower altitude is close by, we call each other on the intl. agreed freq (VHF 123.45 Mhz, imagine that), and co-ordinate so that the higher guy would bail left or right in case of emergency. Things like that.

I got a kick out of a 'new procedure' agreed to by the FAA and it's intl. cousin, the ICAO (Intl. Civil Aviation Organization) recently. Says all aviators are now authorized to fly right of centerline course for safety reasons. Rules say we own 8 miles either side of centerline of airway, and can use up to 4 of those miles without any permission now.

Legitimizing what we have all done for years. You'll love what they called it.

Strategic Lateral Offset Program. SLOP for short.

[Joeaksa]

Second what Michael says and in Africa if we cannot get ahold of ATC we do what is needed then tell the ATC later.

In the end we (the pilots) are the ones responsible (and as well the ones who will go to jail when something goes wrong) and are legally allowed to do ANYTHING needed to insure a safe flight. We may be filling out a lot of paperwork after landing but doing this is better than buying the farm.

As well we always listen in guard (121.5) as well as the air to air freq just in case.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Good article just out on Yahoo on this.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061215/ap_on_re_us/brazil_plane_crash

Pilots say that their transponder was on and that the ATC is just tryingt to deflect attention from their poor system.