+1

My friend, to assign the Sunni's a homogenous status is a serious oversimplification of the reality in Iraq IMO.

While it is true that our main adversary in Iraq is actually Iran, Al Q was very much active early on(and was instrumental in starting the Shia-Sunni civil war to begin with).

One could reasonably argue that going on the offensive moved the battleground from over here, to over there.

Whether or not that's true is debatable, but IMO it is an honest position to hold.

I do agree with you about the mexican border though. 100%

Re: Re: Re: Surrender
 

I think the age is actually 42, but it only applies to PRIOR SERVICE types.

Read the fine print next time John. ;)

If a former senior USAF/SOCOM intelligence NCO is good enough for you that assessment can be confirmed for you 1st hand by going here:

www.worldaffairsboard.com , the posters name is Bluesman, and i can personally vouch for his authenticity, as he is a good friend of mine.

Iraq was a ticking time bomb who was working ever closer to defeating the sanctions we'd placed on them. We were also in a state of open war with them from 1998 on(a war Bill Clinton "started", btw)

How about when the sectarian shooting stops(or is at least manageable)?

I'd call that a victory. Of course at this point it's probably unobtanium, but that does not mean that surrender is a viable option either.

We can't run, there is nowhere to run to that the enemy will not follow. That's MO.

the sectarian nuts areNOT a real threat to us once we leave their country

now ben forgotten and the al-kiddies are
as are the wahabism movement they are part of
but it hard to tell who's who in the iraq mess
and who is mad we killed their kid or brother
and who is a real terrorest

we got rid of goddamm insane
and going back to get whoever replaces him
if they realy support terror
will be eazyer then staying
and should cost less both in lives and dollars
just make it clear
if terrorest supporters take over we will return
and let the sectarian nuts kill each other
who cares

BTW why not go into northern pack to get the tali-ban bases and the real terrorest the al-kiddies

I just don't see that happening. I believe that is an unattainable objective. The history of tribal enmities runs too long and too deep.

Also there is very little respect for democratic traditions in that part of the world. People don't vote the platform of a candidate in Iraq - they vote his ethnicity and tribe. What is the point of democracy under those circumstances? It reinforces the tribal divisions.

The US administration has behaved like the proverbial bull in the china shop. The place is a mess, and there's absolutely no solution to the mess - apart from very possibly a diplomatically brokered one that involves (a) all of the major players in the region and (b) the US eating a lot of crow. And for this the current US administration has far too much pride. And pride, as we all know, is the deadliest of the seven deadly sins.

Re: Surrender
 

Overnight? Has Ann not been paying attention or is she an idiot? How does she come up with “Overnight?”

But I guess that’s the way pundits like her operate. Start with a false premise and build false conclusions.

And no, there will not be a peaceful Iraq anytime soon, if ever. I’m afraid of the opposite, that this civil war that got ignited due to our removing Saddam from power will be another Israeli/Palestinian conflict, where each side suicide bombs each other for the foreseeable future.

Kang: If you ask me a perpetually at war with itself Islam is a victory far beyond our wildest dreams.

If that is the end result of Iraq, i'd score that as a HUGE "W".(no pun intended, lol)

Because going into Pakistan would be 100x more demanding. If you think Iraq is a mess, invade Pakistan, a country of 100,000,000 plus.

Not saying it shouldn't be done neccesarily, but be careful what you ask for, as you just might get it.

That is a very cynical view. Think of the human cost - the suffering of innocent civilians. You call this a 'victory beyond our wildest dreams'? Gheez!

Re: Re: Re: Re: Surrender
 

I tried to get back in after 9/11 (I wanted revenge in the worst way....still do) and got a letter saying I was too old at 36. :confused:

Probably just as well, as my wife wanted to castrate me once she found out I had considered getting back in the reserves!

Yep, i sure do.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Surrender
 

I tried to re-up after 911 too bro(also in the reserves). I also got the 'too old' song and dance, but persisted, physicalled, then after FOUR MONTHS of trying to get back in my recruiter retired and lost my entire packet, and probably saved me from making a huge mistake in the process.

Right after 911 when the recruits were flowing to the recruiters in massive numbers the military was turning people away left and right.

It's only since the war went to pot that they've been forced to re-evaluate those policies.

Needless to say, they'd take you in a heartbeat now if you called and can meet the age requirements. Not that i'd reccomend that. Dying in Iraq would be a pretty pointless exercise when the gov't is obviously NOT interested in actually 'winning' the war.

If they were actually serious we'd have 100k guys on the border with Iran alone, and this nation would be on a true wartime footing.

The whole thing is one big, fat Rumnamara created mess.

When the Ottoman Empire crashed the central of Islamic thought also fell. The shakes pushed their own twist as to whatever kept their belivers in tow.

Heh?

Am I saying what you think I mean? :confused: :confused:

So should I conclude from all of this that everyone, left or right, is okay with idea of America leaving behind a humanitarian nightmare in Iraq? Does this not even appear on anyone's moral radar?

The goal needs to be a stable government. The strategy needs to be to follow the counter-insurgency tactics that were developed during and post Vietnam. Namely, protect the population in cooperation with Iraqi defense forces and isolate insurgents. By winning the trust and support of the population, people who are just trying to get on with their lives will become part of the counter-insurgency effort by informing Iraqi defense forces of known insurgents. Stopping bomb making hardware from entering the country from Iran and Syria would also be a good start.

If the current Iraqi government collapses, Iran could extend its brand of militant Islam over much of the Middle East. That's why Saudi Arabia is making overtures to supply troops to stabilize Iraq and defend against Iran.