Lets get the ball rolling Moses

tabs · 01-09-2007, 02:29 AM

I have thoughts, memory, emotions and imagination. I have five senses and they give me input that is sometimes pleasurable and sometimes not. Your telling me that all that is, is a chemical, electromagnetic process controled by the brain. If thats all we are we might as well be machines, and anything we do in the end counts for nothing, has no meaning as meaning is subjective. Your nothing but a process that eat sleeps fks and *****s. That life is just a process.

Why would you care about your offspring if that were the case. Why would U care abut passing along the dna to your offspring, it won't change the termination of your chemical electromagnetic process will it now?

A question, why do we feel love, it has no use in a chemical electomagnetic process world. It may even cause the termination of the process.

I think the data has been overwhelming that the chemical elctromagnetic process known as human beings need something more than the empirical to survive and thrive.

That something more is elusive and can't be quantified, it is subjective in nature. Since matter in the universe tends to seek equilibrium equal importance or weight has to be given to the empirical as well as the subjective.

So that means that you have to treat the subjective as being as important or real as the empirical. OHHHH...

livi · 01-09-2007, 03:00 AM

Feelings are chemical/hormonally initiated primitive motivators for the organism to behave/act in a way that tends to gain an upper hand in the gene pool race. Nothing more, nothing less I am afraid.

Same basic principals apply in all animal kingdom. In the case of Homo Sapience a more advanced brain has put us in a more advanced social system that to a certain extent blurs out the basic primitive instincts or puts a lid on them. I believe that is bad for us in many ways, but thats another topic.

There are no inherent meaning to our lives besides the drive to survive and reproduce. The rest is a product of the agonizing mind of a creature that evolution gave the ability to predict its own death.

Fire away at will..

svandamme · svandamme's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by livi
Feelings are chemical/hormonally initiated primitive motivators for the organism to behave/act in a way that tends to gain an upper hand in the gene pool race. Nothing more, nothing less I am afraid.

Same basic principals apply in all animal kingdom. In the case of Homo Sapience a more advanced brain has put us in a more advanced social system that to a certain extent blurs out the basic primitive instincts or puts a lid on them. I believe that is bad for us in many ways, but thats another topic.

There are no inherent meaning to our lives besides the drive to survive and reproduce. The rest is a product of the agonizing mind of a creature that evolution gave the ability to predict its own death.

Fire away at will..

agreed

it also explains how emotions can be altered through medicine , think MDMA, think MAOI's, alcohol and nicotine...
even foods with certain chemicals in em, like Milk , Chocolate, eating red beef vs pasta with veggies...

Monkeys have social structures as well , complex too , although not even close to our structures... in fact our brain grew due to our way of socializing, and how we had to deal with each other, not as a requirement to deal with the rest of the world and to survive...if we had to simply evolve to survive, the easy way would have been to stay closer to Monkeys/Gorilla's and Urang Utangs.. at least in the physical sense...although some may argue that some are indeed close to Gorilla's, physically , mentally and hairgrowthontheirbackally

nostatic · nostatic's Garage

but the chemical reactions are driven by experience. We are more than just a walking bag of enzymes...

fastpat · 01-09-2007, 07:09 AM

Yes, we're the result of the zen of enzymes.

Moses · 01-09-2007, 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by livi
Feelings are chemical/hormonally initiated primitive motivators for the organism to behave/act in a way that tends to gain an upper hand in the gene pool race. Nothing more, nothing less I am afraid.

Same basic principals apply in all animal kingdom. In the case of Homo Sapience a more advanced brain has put us in a more advanced social system that to a certain extent blurs out the basic primitive instincts or puts a lid on them. I believe that is bad for us in many ways, but thats another topic.

There are no inherent meaning to our lives besides the drive to survive and reproduce. The rest is a product of the agonizing mind of a creature that evolution gave the ability to predict its own death.

Fire away at will..

Markus, that is absolutely brilliant. Your last paragraph is the most succinct explanation of the human paradox I've had the pleasure to read.

IROC · IROC's Garage

Yes, Markus, IMO you have stumbled onto a sequence of letters typed onto your keyboard that resulted in a philosophically astounding statement. Congrats. Brilliant.

I also happen to agree with you.

Mike

the · 01-09-2007, 08:17 AM

That's not a philosophically astounding statement, that's standard existentialist philosophy that's been around forever.

Never read "The Stranger?"

Moneyguy1 · 01-09-2007, 08:34 AM

There will always be that one individual that fails to see the subtle nuances in a profound statement.

I Markus is in error, some rationale describing his error would be appreciated and considered in a most respectful manner.

Purrybonker · 01-09-2007, 08:37 AM

There's lots of philosophy on this subject. Most of this type of deconstruction has us as completely impotent in terms of intellectual freedom, reason and choice. We're all just biological or sociological machines acting in predictable and mechanical ways.

I almost prefer Tolstoy's take on the matter of self-determination in his epilogue to War & Peace. There he ups the ante and expands on a theme that is consistently raised in the novel about how man (both as an individual and as a society) is not only simply a machine, but further, has absolutely no ability to influence his own actions or fate. He deconstructs the topic methodically and convincingly.

But really, it's much better to ignore matters of such gravity and just keep on firkin and crapping with a smile on one's face.

Moneyguy1 · 01-09-2007, 08:53 AM

Anyone ever get the feeling that he is a character in some vast imagination? Sometimes that thought goes through my head, with the realization that, although I do not know what is coming next, something somewhere just might.

Scary.

gaijindabe · 01-09-2007, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Purrybonker

I almost prefer Tolstoy's take on the matter..... There he ups the ante and expands on a theme that is consistently raised in the novel about how man (both as an individual and as a society) is not only simply a machine, but further, has absolutely no ability to influence his own actions or fate. He deconstructs the topic methodically and convincingly.

I think this guy works at my company.

Joeaksa · 01-09-2007, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Moses
Markus, that is absolutely brilliant. Your last paragraph is the most succinct explanation of the human paradox I've had the pleasure to read.

Ahhh, how do we factor the 911 into this?

Flatbutt1 · 01-09-2007, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Joeaksa
Ahhh, how do we factor the 911 into this?

we need women to reproduce with , 911's attract the women...simple

Moses · 01-09-2007, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Joeaksa
Ahhh, how do we factor the 911 into this?

A Porsche is nothing more than a symbol of power. It's purpose is to make us more attractive to potential mates.

Wealth and it's accoutrements have displaced the heavy clubs wielded by our ancestors. Prehistoric women were probably more likely to breed with the man who is a good hunter and has the ability to keep the wolves out of the cave at night, securing the safety of the offspring. In modern times, wealth has a similar effect of keeping life's unpleasantries at bay, hence women are attracted to "successful" men.

For men it's simpler. Every female attribute that men find sexually attractive related to fertility and healthy chromosomes. We are attracted to young, fertile women. Facial and body symmetry which are universally equated with attractiveness correlate strongly with a low rate of chromosomal errors. Young beautiful women make healthier children.

We are all prisoners of our own biology.

Joeaksa · 01-09-2007, 09:57 AM

I like Flatbutt's example a bit more thank you!

pwd72s · 01-09-2007, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by flatbutt
we need women to reproduce with , 911's attract the women...simple

So, what attracts MORE than a 911? Is this strictly related to the cost of the car?

Moses · 01-09-2007, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by pwd72s
So, what attracts MORE than a 911? Is this strictly related to the cost of the car?

Yup.

fastpat · 01-09-2007, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by pwd72s
So, what attracts MORE than a 911?

Taping a few hundreds to your forehead works really well.

pwd72s · 01-09-2007, 10:12 AM

So, I sell my 911 to a serious collector, buy a cheap 308 Ferrari, invest the difference, more girls would be attracted to the Ferrari? I don't buy it. But then, as a 31 years married guy, I guess I don't have to buy it.