Four lives snuffed by stupidity.

VINMAN · 07:42 PM

I just got back from a fire call. (I'm a firefighter.) A two car accident involving a Caddilac GTS and a Dodge Minivan. Occupants of the caddy were three boys, two 17yo and a 16 yo.
The minivan was driven by a older woman. Apparently the Caddy crossed over to the oncoming lane after losing control. and slammed into the van.
It's said that the car was traveling at a extremely high rate of speed . Witnesses say the car was possibly racing another car. Anyway, upon impact it burst into flames killing all 3 kids, and the female driver of the van. The woman was cut in half below the waist. A passenger in the back seat of the van was taken to the local trauma center.
In 16 yrs of firefighting , this was the worst scene I've been at.
Even worse, a few of our younger firefighters were good friends with these kids. Besides the fact that the accident occured within a 1/4 mile of the drivers home, and the parents had to be restrained to keep them away from the scene.
It angers me at the stupidity that caused these deaths.

VINMAN · 01-10-2007, 07:33 PM

Here is a link to the story.
http://www.news12.com/NJ/topstories/article?id=188210#

rouxroux · 01-10-2007, 07:39 PM

Sad.....
(link did not work for me)

Dantilla · 01-10-2007, 09:02 PM

Sorry to hear you had to experience that.

livi · 01-11-2007, 12:45 AM

Tragic. Hang in there.

Builds perspective on life.

stomachmonkey · 01-11-2007, 03:44 AM

Vin,

Saw that on the news last night. Horrible. I'm sorry you had to have such a close up experience with it.

On the other hand, I'm glad there are guys/gals like you in the FD's who put it on the line for the rest of us.

You have my eternal gratitude, admiration and respect.

widgeon13 · 01-11-2007, 04:45 AM

Saw this on the news this morning. As an EMS responder, it's very difficult to get these senseless events out of our minds and memories.

Thanks for your efforts.

artplumber · 01-11-2007, 04:52 AM

Senseless. You mention some of the responders knew the teens, but one must feel really bad for the woman/and her family that was minding her own business.

NICKG · 01-11-2007, 05:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Wayne at Pelican Parts
Too bad to hear that. I think restrictions should be put on all drivers with less than a year of driving experience, regardless of age...

-Wayne

They do have some pretty good restrictions on young drivers...except that the guy driving did not adhere to them...in nj, probationary drivers (17 yo) cannot have more than 1 passenger unless they are licensed drivers over the age of 18(maybe 21)
Vin, I saw that on the news this morning, I am sorry to hear that you had to respond to that. I am a strong supported of REAL driver training and licensing, like they have in Europe. We all think that driving is our right, when honestly it is a privilege. We need to have real enforcement and training here, not just the "tax the speeder "fines. This kid's parents should be held responsible for his actions and their failure here.

Jims5543 · 01-11-2007, 05:15 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Wayne at Pelican Parts
Too bad to hear that. I think restrictions should be put on all drivers with less than a year of driving experience, regardless of age...

-Wayne

These kids are 3 of 22,000 that will die each year.

After that Autoweek article I looked into sponsoring teen driving schools in cooperation with a driving school that already has a program in place.

The biggest obsticle I ran into is liability in this litigious society. Insurance for a site was a huge hassle then the potantial to be sued after a teen takes your driving school and crashes making their actions your fault.

I decided, as a parent, that I can only make sure my own kids are good safe drivers. If you do enougg research there are lots and lots of teen driving schools, some of them are free, some cost minimal amounts and still toehrs are pricey. My kids will go to as many as I can get them into.

This was the discussion on here abou tthe newsweek article.

22,000 American Teens Dead

Vinman- My good friend is a Tramahawk paramedic and gets to see a lot of really disturbing accidents. It really gets to him sometimes. Especially when street racing is involved and passangers are killed. Hang in there, like Livi said it puts life in prespective. Even though its really disturbing and sad.

Moses · 01-11-2007, 05:28 AM

In California, new teen drivers may not have other minors in their cars for a year and cannot drive after 11 PM. Makes good sense.

gchappel · 01-11-2007, 05:59 AM

What a senseless tragedy. Newer stricter laws are all well and good- but this again reflects back to the parents and family. As parents it is our responsiblity to control and teach our children in all things in life, including driving. My kids could have no passengers and could not drive after dark for the first year- state law? No. Family law.
Drivers Ed in my area- even the private schools my kids took were a joke. I taught them to handle a car in a slide, how to get out of a spin, how to emergency stop, etc in the local empty parking lots. Not the greatest location- but it was the best option available. I teach at track events more than once a month, and I regret not taking them out to the track to learn higher speed control.
These deaths are senseless and horrible, but the state is never going to control or prevent this. As a parent you have half a chance.
gary

Jims5543 · 01-11-2007, 06:09 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by gchappel

Drivers Ed in my area- even the private schools my kids took were a joke. I taught them to handle a car in a slide, how to get out of a spin, how to emergency stop, etc in the local empty parking lots. Not the greatest location- but it was the best option available. I teach at track events more than once a month, and I regret not taking them out to the track to learn higher speed control.

There is a huge difference between Drivers Ed and Driving Schools.

The Audi Driving Experiance is a school that starts with Autocross and skidpad instruction and moves out onto the track.

The Evolution Teen Driving school takes track driving and Autocross disciplines and applying them to the street. Looking ahead, anticipating the other driver, evasive maneuvers etc...

My 13 y/o will Autocross as soon as he is allowed to (right now he races a 80cc Kart) and will be on the track as well, along with attending every performance driving school I can get him into.

Coupled with lots of rules about when and where he can drive and who can be in his car.

}{arlequin · }{arlequin's Garage

except for that whole american freedom thing, it would be nice to have them be forced to drive 1.5L diesel cars. rarely do these motors just 'pick up and go' and the speed would be quite limited as well. what i remember from being young and dumb, is the sudden burst of speed that i enjoyed when flooring it in a big motor car. take that sensation away and it may not be worth it taking a mile and a half just to reach 120.... sorry about your day.

motion · 01-11-2007, 06:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Moses
In California, new teen drivers may not have other minors in their cars for a year and cannot drive after 11 PM. Makes good sense.

These laws make sense, although they are rarely adhered to. As a matter of fact, they are mostly ignored.

Vinman, sorry you had to go through this.... hang in there and make it work to your advantage.

pmajka · 01-11-2007, 06:49 AM

Could this have been avoided by a decent Center divider?

Tobra · Tobra's Garage

Saw one of these, minivan, 6 kids under 10 yo without a seatbelt on any of them, drunk in a Lincoln. Net result, orphan with 5 dead siblings and a drunk with a broken nose, I still dream about that one sometimes, it was bad, really bad

VINMAN · 07:57 AM

Thanks for the kind words guys, I really appreciate it. Ive responded to many fatal fires and accidents but nothing like this.
This is a tough one to get over. Normally the only thing that bothers me is anything involving young children, but since this was "close to home", its affecting me different. I wasnt one of the first ones on the scene. I arrived afterwards. One of the first guys on the scene was the best friend of the driver. He was the one that had to extinguish the fire. Needless to say the poor kid's a basket case. We had to remove him from the scene.
Another kid is wracked with guilt because it was his first call as a fireman and he was so excited about it. He's also a buddy of a victim. We had the Critical Incident Stress Debriefing Team out last night to talk to everyone. It's gonna be a rough road for all of the younger guys. ( also for some of the veterans).

http://www.app.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070111/VIDEO/301110002

VINMAN · 01-11-2007, 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by pmajka
Could this have been avoided by a decent Center divider?

Possibly? who knows. This is a fairly new county road four lanes very wide. It's like an interstate hwy. People fly on it. 50 mph speed limit. Open about a yr or so. We've had 6 major accidents on it so far. Five fatalities. The township police have radar all over the place on it. The spot where the incident happened is on a very gradual turn. From what i see it was excessive speed and driver inexperience. Plain and simple.
I dont want to get into how I feel about parents getting thier young kids high performance cars but the majority of teen and younger driver accidents I respond to involve cars like these.
I know the same thing can happen in an old beat up nissan, but usually not.

widebody911 · widebody911's Garage

I think it's just about impossible to get through kid's heads.

There's a 17yo kid in my 'hood that I helped build a baja bug. He broke the transmission (off-roading) and bought a cheap $300 Honda to get to school and back while the bug was down. The other day he comes by to work on the bug, and the front bumper RF fender on the Honda is slighltly mangled. I asked him what happened and he starts out with "I was racing this guy..."