Wow, you could pick up the irony with a magnet...

Yeah, I know my taxes are paying for public school and I pray every day my public schools go to failing schools so I can get my voucher to pay some of my sons tuition in private school.


It pisses me off the public school gets my money.

My experiance with our private school is 180° from what we went through with public. Thats my point. If you pay for the school out of your own pocket and its being run like a public school. Take your business elseware. Thats the beauty of private school.

I don't see what's offensive about that. If they'd taught you that in school, you wouldn't be complaining about your kid's education today!

I said I love this. OT at its best - wide open topics and let the fun begin... I am not fan of public school and have not since I was in them (got the regents thingy too.)

Public whatever just stinks. The subway this morning - delayed for the fifth time in five working days.. You get the feeling the system is run for the benifit of the transit workers - their work rules, their pensions and healthcare, their pay scale and shifts. Moving people from A to B? Well, that is just an excuse to spend the money - not the focus.

As for Montessori schools - I have heard nothing but good things. I think in England they are called Steiner schools. Good luck.

http://concordspedpac.org/IQ-bell.JPG
Full Scale IQs between 90 and 110 are considered within the "average range" (Mean IQ score is 100).

You have to know the difference between "average" and "mean average".:)

That is a fair representation of the way things used to be, unfortunately it's not that way anymore.

one thing is everyone takes the same test IQ 80-180 they all take the same test

another thing the test(even math tests) are as much as test of reading as anything else, calculators are used, at least from JHS on. The curriculum is a mile wide and an inch deep so they nevwer truely master any feel for #s, which is the foundation for algebra etc.

The whole system is a train wreck being driven by the so called accoutability police(who are they accountanble to by the way??)

Maybe you need to pick the teachers better? My wife volunteers 3x week and does HW with kids everyday. She has hand picked their teachers thus far (K-4th grade) with outstanding results. Other parents have similar experiences and the main similarity is that they participate. Parents that don't invest the time, energy, or interest get the scraps and hope for the best. Schools say parents don't get to pick but we all know that's a crock.

Can it be improved...definitely, but there are alot of GREAT teachers in the public schools these days. You need to find them and not accept any less. My position on home school is that the kids get a personally tailored program, and home cooked meals :), but miss out on all the social interaction the school grounds offers. I'm not comfortable with them missing that.

I know! Let's blame this on the gubmit and the unions!

How does she handpick the class? Its against our disctrict rules. We tried to get him changed from a class at the beginning of the year and the priciple and GC both said no it was against policy. They would be spending all their time changing classes if they allowed it.

Your wife obviously has gotten you kids special treatment in the school. Good for you, I hope your wife can volentter the entire time they are in school and nothing in your life changes to stop that.

By your own admission schools don't have to care about kids who have parents who both work and are too busy to volenteer. Then those kids get the crappy teachers and the poor education.

That is sad.

yes, and remember what happened in a school 25 years ago is indicative of what is happening now.

no, it isn't sad, it's bull*****. At least at my school, and all the schools I've interacted with so far in LA Unified. Are there issues? Of course. But to make blanket statements about all teachers being lazy and nobody caring is just flat out false, at least here.

If there truly is a problem you can change classes and teachers (again, at least in LA Unified). You have to be polite yet adament. And you have to learn the system and use it to your advantage.

He said he pickes his kids teachers before the school year starts. In my district its against the rules.

When I was having problems with my sons teacher this past year, I took it to a MINI forum where I knew there were about 6 school teachers in Florida on there.

What I gained from my interaction with them was that the teachers know which kids parents are on the PTA and active in the school and they get better treatment and the teacher walks on egg shells with them knowing the power of the PTA and its ability to make their life miserable.

Todd, I am not rude to my sons teachers and I am not putting them down now. They are doing their job, as instructed, the the administration. I have always took up for teachers, even the mean ones, telling my son to keep his head down and get through his 45 minutes with them and he will be fine. Just do the work.

But now that I have pulled my kid out of there and I am seeing how much better he is doing I cannot help but wonder WTF was going on in there and why an adult feels the need to beat down a little kid?

Not all teachers are bad but you know how the saying goes....

I didn't say that. Parents who don't look out for their kids get what they get. A parent should also consider a teachers style and personality. What works for some kids may be a total failure for others. This is why the parents need to be involved. Talk to the principal and teachers. Show them you want to work WITH them and that you want to do whatever it takes to help. Learn your rights as a parent and politely, but firmly, leverage them to best accomodate your child.

Yeah and the speed limit on the I-15 is 65mph...
I don't pick the teachers. My wife is the guilty party but does it with the help of the alliances she has built at the school. It's all about working as a TEAM.

You see, I am not a pushy person. When we requested to have our sons class changed at the beginning of the year we were given the "its against the rules and if we allowed that it would be a madhouse" answer.

So we accepted this was a rule that applies to everyone and delt with the teacher. A lot of damage was done to our sons self esteem that year. Talk to your kids like they are dogs every day and see how well they develope.

So, your saying if a parent is not kissing ass in the school your kid will suffer? But not in so many words. Its more you can get the school to break the rules for you if you play the game right. I did not know school was a game.

Jim, sorry to hear about your son's bad experience. I'm in no way saying you are wrong or not attentive enough. My "Maybe you need to pick the teachers better?" comment came off rude and I appologize. I'm just saying it would be worth a couple evenings research to find out exactly what rights you and your son has. Our school initially tried the "can't" routine but have since come around nicely once we called a meeting with the district, principal, and teacher. We never were rude, pushy yes, but in a good way :)

We are friends with the teachers and staff these days. You can call it "kissing ass" but if it gets results for our kids then so be it.

Nothing against you you care about your kids and that is admirable.


I have my opinions about our school district in particular and they are harsh.

School Districts are nothing but Bureaucracys. Nothing good comes out of a one size fits all mentality except low cost disposable goods.

Jim, it really just depends on how hard you want to push. No rule is ironclad. I have found that you need to be an advocate for your kid, and hopefully you can get an ally either in the teacher or local admin. Asking once and going away when they say "no" doesn't cut it. You have to press them on why, and indicate that the problem must be solved, so how can we work together to figure this out. If you go away, you are no longer a problem for them and are quickly off their radar. If you are in their office every day, believe me they will figure out a way to accomodate you and your kid.

Well from my perspective 98.6% of U all are gits to me...subject to be pushed down the stairs.

It should not be like that. Being a pushy annoying parent should not be the answer. That is not my style I am very non confrontational and a honest person. So I get the shaft from public schools.

The problem with public schooling has made itself very clear.

What else would I expect from government run agencies?

Remember School District Bureaucracys are like people who take Meds to even out their emotions. Bureaucrats don't like attention being paid to what they do, and its a matter of what is the easiest path to follow.. Dispensatons to the rules are always possible. its a question of who is there to serve who.

First thing one needs to understand is what the term "average" defines in the legal context of schools.

• Is it the 70% of the central distribution curve?
• Is it 98% of the curve?
• Or is it the median (the exact mid-point of the distribution.) as proposed in the initial post?

Without this knowledge y'all are pi$$in' in the wind.

Re: Re: Re: 50% of all children are below average!!!
 

Yes sireee...+1...I've seen it first hand...

For example a school curriculum may require that you teach A + B +C now a specific teacher speciality maybe A + B + c + D... its a shame if the teaher can't teach D as part of his class.

I find social interpetation in School classrooms to be indoctrination of PC, and I have seen it manifest at the state level as to what the approved texbooks are including and more importantly what they are excluding.

I was just looking at some nominees for the Darwin awards. It now occurs to me that as these budding geniuses find new and ever dumber ways to kill themselves off, myself and my children get relatively dumber. Chip away at the left end of the curve and we all slide left. Good thing stupid people reproduce faster.

Public schools are totally unresponsive to the needs of the students or the parents. I say that we need to deconsolidate the schools and return to local control. Consolidation in the 1960's ruined the public school, followed by even worse court rulings that brought all of the public schooling down to the lowest common denominator.

My youngest daughter was in 3rd grade and still unable to read. I protested that the stupid, non phonetic method was largely responsible and they needed to do something to get her on track and soon. So they tested her intelligence, IQ above 140. Why couldn't she read then? Defining silence and no action what so ever to help her. I had to help her learn phonetics and she learned to read. The school was worthless. New requirement in CA for high school graduation, the dreaded test that all hs grads must pass. She passed it in 9th grade. Consequently she learned NOTHING for the next 3 years and even had to take remedial classes in Jr college to come back up to speed. What a fking waste of 3 years. I wish I could sue them for their incompetence, for wasting my money, and three years of her life.

My oldest daughter was much brighter and even the public schools could not screw up her education much. She graduated 2nd in a class of 750, gpa of 4.4 out of 4, (would have been much higher if an Arab that thought girls should not take math did not have her for a student for about 2 months, I had to threaten to sue to get her out of that class, and all of the teachers whose class she ended up in were upset that they had to take one more student and consequently she had one semester where she did not get all A's), in one of CA's best public High Schools. She also was cheer Capt. and did a large number of after school activities, homecoming princess, and a reputation for having time to spend at the beach. She had almost a full year of AP course credit (higher than 30 score on AP tests). Yet she was NEVER challenged, ever. She did her homework in school, spent over 40 hours a week in competitive dance, cheer. She never learned what work was like. again school was almost a total waste of her time. By the way her curriculum was not the same as most of the other students. They had three unofficial tracks, the dumb track, the normal track and the superior track. The superior track was much like the normal track when I was in school, the normal track was very dumbed down and politically correct and I don’t know much about dumb track except that no one ever flunked.

She later went to UCSB and graduated with a master in education (what a waste) with a 3.7 gpa, working 40 hours per week.

Even though my oldest did ok, I cannot support the CA public schools. I think they are a waste for talented students, normal students do not get a good education and basically waste at least 4 or 5 years of their life, learning nothing, and students that shouldn’t even attend high school are graduated without any knowledge of anything.

As to the political correct indoctrination, it’s horrible. They put students up against their parents that want to instill values and morals. They instill very UN American values in children, communist, socialist values that are so anti America, that we would have been better off if the commies had invaded and won the cold war!

As to students being 50% above or below average, its a simple fact, no matter the school system. What is a fact is that all home schooled students and all private schooled students learn more than the typical public school student. Why? Because the govt is ALWAYS incompetent, at any thing. If you think YOUR public school is better than the rest, your are WRONG, its a POS.

By the way, I am very proud of both of my daughters accomplishments, but not of the educational system that they were subjected to. They suceeded in spite of that system, not because of it.

Jack, you said it well...If all parents caught on to the fraud, we'd be better off as a nation.

No one wants to admit that they are throwing good money after bad. Many do not have the option to send their children to a private school so they must put up with the public ones. Who would want to admit that they sent their children to a substandard school? No one, thats unfortunate.

I got tired of teaching my son what the teachers failed to. I hope the next 2 years are miraculous because a lot of damage has been done to him, acedemically and mentally.

Shame on the teachers that beat that poor kids self esteem into the ground. If I loose my temper over this I might end up in jail... forever.

My 3 y/o will NEVER see a public school EVER.

Jack - your a lucky man, for whatever reason, girls seem to be better self starters and your lucky your girls did as good as they did given the circumstances.

Kudo's to you for taking an interest in them and making sure they did well.

maybe she couldn't read because dad didn't read to her.

my son read before he got to school because we read to him from day one.

Oh, for sure...it's always the fault of the parents. Question: where does the countless billions spent on public schools really go? Must not be a lot of it spent on reading classes...

I do not remember my parents teaching me everything I needed to learn in school when growing up.

At what point did the responsibility to teach kids in school switch over to the parents at home?

I though we sent our kids to school to learn. Not get books so we can teach them at home. Unfortunatly the latter seems to be the norm nowadays and if your kid is not keeping up its not the teachers fault its the parents fault.

See how quick Jack was blamed for his daughter inability to read. It could not possibly be the school it had to be Jacks fault.

Did Jack actually think that the school was going to teach his daughter to read. How silly!! (Insert green text where you like.)

I agree with Nostatic on this one. If you've got a kid with a high IQ, and they can't read by 3rd grade....it's not the school's fault. IMO, virtually all school systems can be deficient in challenging the extremely gifted...

If a kid enters school w/ a readiness and willingness to learn, then he will learn otherwise, not. He has to be fed, clean, mannered, organized appropritely to his age, equipped w/ basic supplies and seen his parents reading and in general acting in a civilized manner.

It is the parents responsibility to nurture the kid so that he is prepared to accept what the schools can offer. Remember the kid is in school for only a small % of his life. A teacher is in a 1:30 situation for a few hours a day , the parents are 2:1/2/3/4/5 much better odds of being able to affect behavior and attitude

+1

school can only do so much. Could they do better? Of course. Are there bad teachers? Of course. Just like any other profession. Is money wasted? Without a doubt...just like any other profession.

But blaming it all on the schools is just plain wrong. I'm sorry, but if a gifted kid can't read by 3rd grade, I'm going to blame the parents more than the school. I had issues in 3rd grade that resulted in my mom insisting I have an IQ test, then I quickly was transfered to another school and another class where I wasn't as bored. But I was reading the encyclopedia before I set foot in any school because my parents read to me.

Education is first learned at home and the schools can only nurture that. And a smart kid will still require a lot of stimulation at home. In a classroom environment a teacher cannot hope to provide everything that every student needs. It can't be done.

Maybe some of you who are so embittered by the school system should go volunteer at your local public school, or better yet give teaching a try. If you hate public school, then do it at a private school. Your attitude about what a school "should" be doing might change...

I read to my 13 y/o son every night and have been since he was born. When he wasn't being taught in public school I sat with him every school night for 2-4 hours doing homework and teaching him what the teachers failed to.

My wife used to volunteered up until our 3 y/o was born then she had to stop. I do not have time to leave my office and volenteer. So we are screwed because we do not.

I am sick and tired of hearing how parents have to volunteer at the school. My parents didn't when I was a kid, hell I cannot recall every seeing parents in the school doing anything when I was growing up.

Why suddenly is it that all the teaching has to be done at home?

My son is in private school now and guess what? No more homework, they get all their work done in class. Plus they are not wasting their time preparing for the revenue tests.

I got sick of the BS and pulled my kids from it. My life over the next few years will be more difficult financially due to this decision but dammit I was sick of the BS.


I really do not think Snowmans daughter could not read at all she was probably reading below grade.

But you have to stop and ask, how did she get through 4 years of school and never improve. I mean "professional" teachers were teaching her and she still could not read?

Please.

This is a huge issue. Why all the homework in public schools? Does it do any good? Does it instill a love of reading and lifelong study? Or effective work habits even? I think it is all busywork. Particularly in the lower grades.