I guess you should remove all the kitchen knives also. Kid could potentially take one of them to school and stab 36 of his classmates! How bout taking some responsibility and teaching your kids right from wrong. This has to start at an early age. If you start trying to be a parent when the kid is 15, its like talking to a wall. Look what those 2 d i c k w a d s in CO did. Yes the kids were responsible for their actions and if they had any balls they would not have killed themselves, but damn maybe if Daddy or Mommy would have popped their head in once in a while and took an active role in the kids life they would have seen the road they were headed down.

The NRA was largely muzzled by John McCain's "Campaign finance reform" bill, a bill that was no more than the 1st step in the destruction of the 1st amendment.

None of this surprises me, its why i vote (R) in election after election.

The fact that you think the federal(or any) govt could actually survive a popular insurgency in the US merely shows how utterly ignorant you are to military matters.

An insurgency here would be 10x worse than Vietnam and Iraq COMBINED.

And by the way, a Govt in America was overthrown as recently as 1946.

Bet you didnt know that, did you?

Oh? Think we're going to bomb our own cites and attack our own people with gunships? Think even 1/2 the military would even carry out orders to attack their own countrymen? Think some would work as spies and sabatuers from the inside?

What do you think the press is going to say about all this? You think the NYT is bad NOW???

The couldn't use any of their(ahem, our) billion dollar gold plated killing machines. They'd have to come and get every insurgent man to man, one at a time.

It would be a bloodbath....for the gov't.

I can make/convert or acquire almost everything on your list by myself. And so can a couple million other americans. If not more. Not to say i would, but that's just an example of how widespread the knowledge is. This is the infomation age, anything you want to know, its out there.

And Guard armories have virtually NO security, and would be really easy to loot(it has happened many times right here in the USA), and same with all the motor pools.

The Feds cant even guard JUST their own key sites in this nation, let alone muster an attacking force against thousands(tens or hundreds) of their own countrymen, many of whom are US military trained themselves...

Compared to a "neo US minuteman", Iraqis very much would be 'lightly armed..and in an American insurgency they'd mostly be facing off against white-shirted rent a cops in ones and twos. The insurgent has the initiative. He will always hit where you are weakest.

It would be a disaster for the gov't.

I had a Mini-14 under my bed in my BR from the time i was 14 on(unloaded, but i knew where the bullets were). At 15 i spent a whole summer up the mtns with an uncle with a .22 rifle in my hand with almost every waking breathe. I never slaughtered my classmates.

I agree, the presence of guns is HARDLY the problem when these kids go off. Cause you can get guns anywhere. What is rare is the motivation to commit multiple homicides.

I agree....bad parenting.

Assuming you could tear people away from American Idol, 24, and the Barrett-Jackson auction...

I assure you that few "ex-green beret libertarian nut job" types will be lured by the white-trash appeal of those shows.

The people that would do the fighting are already "present and accounted for" on the political landscape. There are tens and tens of thousands of them. Each 100x more dangerous than the average Haji.

Timothy McViegh was only a mech leg puke for stink's sake. In the 86 Miami Dade shootout one ex-Ranger with a semi-auto rifle took out about a dozen FBI agents at point blank range. 2 supply clerks in DC terrorized the city for a month. And in LA two guys with AKs and body armor pinned down dozens of cops for hours. (for the record i do not in any way support the actions of ANY of them, and condemn them all in the strongest possible languge)

These were for the most part not even 'elite' types, just 'regular beer swilling white trash rednecks' who had a modicum of military training, and who were highly motivated.(the guy in miami being a glaring exception. Rangers are badass)

Now imagine that everywhere- all at once, and in constant dribs and drabs. Endlessly, with no end in sight, ever. Not even a whisper of a dream of a "win" for the "good guys."

It would be utter chaos partly because there would be no "good and bad", just Americans.

Killing each other in droves.

so.....you do agree with me? i mean, if the CO parents had investigated their kids private lives and found evidence of suicidal/murderous tendancies certainly a prudent thing to do would be to eliminate all potential access to potential murder weapons.

or do you think they then should have kicked the **** out of the boys and sent them to a prostitute to get their diploma from the university of manhood?


Sniper, bad parenting is giving a 14yr old unfettered access to a mini-14. in fact it's farking nuts!

No, he does not agree with you, he says that good parenting stops that from ever happening because mommy and daddy are there from day one, interested, engaged, concerned...you know, they act like good parents.

And newsflash: there is NO way to deny "anyone" of weapons if they want them. You can buy a hot gun in any 1/2 assed city in america with all of 1 hour effort and a few hundred bucks. The easiest place to get weapons in America is to just steal them from any of the virtually unguarded US military armories or motorpools around the US. Why mess with a .223 when you can hijack an M60A3TTS with no more than a pair of bolt-cutters and a lookout?

"When guns are outlawed only outlaws will have guns."

Sniper, good parenting is not a guarantee of anything. It simply pushes the odds in the favor of ending up with a good kid.

Yes, we can all go find a firearm for cheap if we try hard enough. But that 'try hard enough' is very likely the barrier that stops a LOT of suicides and murders. I dare say there are a lot of adults in the world today who might not be alive if they had quick access to a firearm during a troubled period in their teen years.

+ 1

Too many generations of folks who have lived in large urban areas who now think of guns solely as the root of all evil. A troubled teen can kill or injure others with all sorts of household items yet somehow guns take all the heat instead of the parents of the effed up teen.

There are laws on the books against underage drinking, drunk driving, street racing, drugs etc etc, yet teens still do all of the above. People are at the root of all crimes not objects such as guns, knives, fast cars, alcohol, baseball bats, drugs etc etc.

There was a time when a youth could walk down the street with a .22 slung on his shoulder and a cop would wave as he went by.

What has changed? Certainly not the guns. IMO, the lack of personal responsibility and societies ever dwindling morality is to blame.

Beretta Fan:

Yet the "cool-down" periods implemented with Brady showed no significant statistical decrease in any gun related crime anywhere they were enacted. That's what the FBI reported. Hell, even ABC news has reported this, they even did an unbeleiveably(sp?) pro-gun special months ago about the lies of gun control. I simply couldnt believe i saw that show on network TV to be honest!

When the urge to kill is present almost anything will do. A clothes-iron then becomes a truly lethal implement of death. So does a bathtub and an electrical appliance. Or a steak knife. A sewing needle. A golf club. An SUV. A paperweight.

Virtually anything.

So the passion killer argument is lacking, and the pre-planned killer is going to get them where-ever he has to. If somebody truly desires to turn on society, there really is nothing that we can do to stop them before the fact. Gun control is a lie.

You have to get lucky. That day in Columbine....we were unlucky. :(

When my uncle was a kid growing up here in Philly in the late 60s they used to ride the CITY BUS with 12 gauge shotguns(all of them teens), in a pack, to go quail and squirrel hunting in the woods(lots of them in philly back then).

What stopped them from killing everyone in their path?

Good parenting.

Thank you. Had to step out for a few mins.

Oh really? You can buy a nuke?


Edit: This is in no way defending the original post. My point is, we will always be outpowered, no matter what laws are not allowed to be passed with regard to this topic, so we desparately need to keep our other rights intact.

On this issue i think we need to get something out in the open; that is that most gun nuts believe that if the gov't ever finally said 'just give us all your damn guns' there would be a 'revolution'. This is the 'popular insurgency' that Snipe speaks of. The problem is it WON'T BE POPULAR. The majority are willing to trade gun ownership for being left alone and not taking a chance at losing their homes and families while they rot in jail. Ask our friends in the UK or Aussieland if you doubt me on this point.

Do you constantly bump into walls or trip over things? Just wondering because it must be pretty hard to see with your head up your arse.

Id say if you had 100,000 nationwide(active and support), that'd be "popular".

That's only 1/3000th of the population.

There are 10x that many serious criminals in the US Already, just waiting for some leadership, arms, and coordination.

Like i said, the "army" is already in place. It ALWAYS has been. The founding fathers knew this well. Just read any of their quotes.

No, I don't. Do you always conduct yourself in a manner like a schoolkid?