Fun With Baseball History - All-Time Rosters

[CJFusco]

Since OT has been a little slow lately, and it is a slow time in the sports season (at least for a few days), I thought of a little game for we baseball fans to pass the time.

Put together a 25-man roster of the best players from your favorite team. Or, if you really want to start arguments, from all of baseball history. Here's my team:

All-Time Boston Red Sox (assume peak seasons)

BATTING ORDER:
SS Nomar Garciaparra
3B Wade Boggs
LF Carl Yasztremski
DH Ted Williams
1B David Ortiz
CF Jim Rice
C Carlton Fisk
RF Dwight Evans
2B Bobby Doerr

PITCHING ROTATION:
1 Roger Clemens
2 Pedro Martinez
3 Cy Young
4 Luis Tiant
5 Jim Lonborg

BENCH:
1B Jimmie Foxx
1B Mo Vaughn
2B/SS Joe Cronin
OF Dom DiMaggio
OF Fred Lynn
OF Manny Ramirez
P Lefty Grove
P Dick Radatz
P Dennis Eckersley
P Curt Schilling
P Tom Gordon

Some liberties I took include Ortiz playing 1st base - he DHs most of the time, but is an average defensive 1st baseman, and has played a number of games at 1st since joining the Red Sox (especially in interleague and in the World Series at NL parks). It was a toss-up between Ortiz and Jimmie Foxx for 1st base; Foxx has incredible all-time numbers, but Ortiz is making history every year he plays, and there is no one you would rather have at the plate with the game on the line (except maybe Ted Williams, who has the most game-ending HRs in MLB history).

I have Yaz playing left because he is a superior fielder to Williams; what you want Ted on your team for is to hit, and hit alone (still leads every player in history in OBP, and is 2nd all time, to Babe Ruth, in SLG).

Rice played most of his games in Left, but did play a few in Center.

Other than that, most of the choices SHOULD be self-explanatory.

[CJFusco]

For Ha-Has, I'll make an All-Time MLB roster, too.

BATTING ORDER:
CF Willie Mays
SS Alex Rodriguez
LF Ted Williams
DH Babe Ruth
RF Barry Bonds
1B Lou Gehrig
2B Rogers Hornsby
3B Mike Schmidt
C Johnny Bench

STARTING ROTATION:
1 Walter Johnson
2 Roger Clemens
3 Cy Young
4 Sandy Koufax
5 Nolan Ryan

BENCH:
C Carlton Fisk
SS Honus Wagner
OF Stan Musial
OF Rickey Henderson
OF Ty Cobb
OF Mickey Mantle
OF Hank Aaron
P Pedro Martinez
P Christy Matthewson
P Randy Johnson
P Mariano Rivera

A little light on pitching, I know... but, hey, Pedro and Randy can go a lot of innings out of the bullpen.

[MRM]

My knowledge of MLB is spotty, and focuses mostly on the 1950s and 60s Dodger and Yankees and 1960s Red Sox.

Based on my limited knowledge, I can offer that for left field or first base for the Red Sox, pick your spot, it is Carl Yastrimski, no matter, no place, no how. He's the man.

There's also some guy named Ted who you should probably make room for on that roster. Williams, I think his name was. .400 or so one season. I don't think anyone's done that since. Not a great human being, perhaps, but his goal in life was to make it so that when people talked about who was the greatest hitter that ever lived, if they didn't mention him, they didn't know what they were talking about. He put it a bit more harshly than I would, but he ended up being right. He has a place, either in the outfield, first base or DH, or wherever you want him, but he has to be there.

The only rival for the best hitter ever is the Imortal Babe. Yes, Babe Ruth. Look at his stats. Look at the number of HRs to strike outs, batting average, walks, slugging percentage, total on base percentage, whatever. He is in a league of his own. Not bad for a fat guy who liked beer and women almost as much as hitting one out of the park. He gets best right fielder ever.

The best catcher ever, all time, is Roy Campanella, Brooklyn Dodgers. First three time MVP, 1951, 1953, 1955. Sparkplug of the first Brooklyn World Series Champs, 1955. His career was cut short the same year as the Dodgers fled to LA (and lost their souls) by a car accident that broke his neck but not his spirit. Read "It's Good to be Alive" some time. It will change your life. Some people think it wasn't a coincidnece that he was paralyzed the off season before the Dodgers left Brooklyn.

Best left handed pitcher ever is Sandy Koufax. I'll let you argue whether Whitey Ford or someone else is the best righthander. After Sandy it doesn't matter.

Best second base ever is Jackie Robinson. Look at his stats, his impact on the team, his performance under death threats - I mean pressure. On or off the field, no one can touch him, not even Bobbie Richardson, and that's true even though Richardson was a Yankee and therefore gets a handicap that needs to be taken into account when he gets graded objectively. Even Bobby would give the crown to Jackie.

Best center fielder ever is Willie Mays. 'Nuff said.

I'll have to think on the rest.

[Sonic dB]

All Time Tigers

C- Bill Freehan
1B - Hank Greenberg
2B - Lou Whittaker
SS - Alan Trammell
3B - George Kell
RF - Al Kaline
CF - Ty Cobb
LF - Kirk Gibson (moved over from RF)
RHP - Jack Morris
LHP - Hal Newhouser
RP - Willie Hernandez
SRP - Aurelio Lopez
Manager - Sparky Anderson

None of the current Tigers make it, because they
are a very young team with some great young players
and a few HOF vets who were signed via free agency such
as Pudge Rodriquez. Obviously Pudge is maybe the 1st or 2nd best Catcher of all time for any team
...but he has only been with the Tigers for a few years so I couldnt consider him "a Tiger" alone.

[MRM]

Tigers all time greats has no Hank Greenberg?

Kirk Gibson surely belongs, but given my Dodger prejudice I'd place him as the best Dodgers' pinch hitter ever.

Jack Morris for sure. If the Hall of Fame overlooks him it will be a diservice.

[Sonic dB]

I debated that one and chose Norm Cash, because I believe that Cash was more important to his team's success over the years + Greenberg's career was interrupted by WWII.

But for you, I will change it.

I put Gibby in there because he was a catalyst, a spark plug and leader... with the Tigers, he was somewhat up and down stats wise and never fulfilled his potential until he left the Tigers, however he was extremely important to the 84 team and they would not have won it without his leadership and timely hits and speed.

Left Lance Parrish off...that was tough.

Jack Morris is being snubbed for the HOF because he is about 40 wins short of 300 and his ERA is high 3s... at least thats what the voters are pointing too... I believe that he should be in. 4 WS rings, excellent consistancy and some amazing clutch pitching performances in his career. He was a bit of a prick too...and perhaps the writers are penalizing him a bit for his arrogance to the press back in those days.

[hytem]

Funny how most people who pick all-time Red Sox teams these days pick only modern era players from the post 1934 Yawkey teams which never won a Championship. The 2004 Champions were a Henry-owned team.

What about the players from the great WWI era teams that won several Championships and dominated baseball until a New Yorker named Frazee bought the club and sold most of its good players to--you guessed it--NY! Including a young slugger and all-star pitcher named Babe Ruth.

Now, why doesn't Babe Ruth appear on the all-time Red Sox list? After all, he was a great starting pitcher and league-leading HR hitter playing for Boston--already one of the top players in Baseball. And then there's a center fielder named Tris Speaker--didn't he hit .400 in Boston before being traded to Cleveland? And Smokey Joe Wood, the great pitcher. And Cy Young, of course. And probably others.

[CJFusco]

Originally posted by MRM
There's also some guy named Ted who you should probably make room for on that roster. Williams, I think his name was. .400 or so one season. I don't think anyone's done that since. Not a great human being, perhaps, .

Not a great human being? Ted Williams didn't get along with the press, he didn't like fans who booed him one second and cheered him the next. Other than that, he was a family man with some Larry Bird-type skeletons, but was by most accounts a wonderful human being. People that knew him well adored him. He was the kind of guy that would spend his off-day at the hospital visiting sick kids, and he would go in disguise as not to draw attention to himself. He wanted to make sick kids happy, he wasn't after publicity.

Good Tigers team, Sonic dB.

Originally posted by hytem
Funny how most people who pick all-time Red Sox teams these days pick only modern era players from the post 1934 Yawkey teams which never won a Championship. The 2004 Champions were a Henry-owned team.

What about the players from the great WWI era teams that won several Championships and dominated baseball until a New Yorker named Frazee bought the club and sold most of its good players to--you guessed it--NY! Including a young slugger and all-star pitcher named Babe Ruth.

Now, why doesn't Babe Ruth appear on the all-time Red Sox list? After all, he was a great starting pitcher and league-leading HR hitter playing for Boston--already one of the top players in Baseball. And then there's a center fielder named Tris Speaker--didn't he hit .400 in Boston before being traded to Cleveland? And Smokey Joe Wood, the great pitcher. And Cy Young, of course. And probably others.

Well, I included Cy Young and Jimmie Foxx in my lists. I was debating whether or not to include Tris Speaker. The simple fact is that I have seen footage and know more about individual players in the "modern" era, and therefore can make more accurate performance evaluations.

Even so, old timers who saw a lot of the old players still pick ones mostly from the modern era. The official Red Sox 100 Year Retrospective asked Charlie Wagner and Johnny Pesky to pick their all-time starting nine, and these were their picks (as of 2001)

PESKY: Dom DiMaggio (or Fred Lynn) CF
Nomar Garciaparra, SS
Ted Williams, LF
Jimmie Foxx, 1B
Bobby Doerr, 2B
Carlton Fisk, C
Dwight Evans, RF
Frank Malzone (or Wade Boggs), 3B
Pedro Martinez, P
Mel Parnell, P
Dick Radatz, P

WAGNER: Dom DiMaggio, CF
Bobby Doerr, 2B
Ted Williams, LF
Jimmie Foxx, 1B
Nomar Garciaparra, SS
Carlton Fisk, C
Dwight Evans, RF
Frank Malzone, C
Pedro Martinez, P
Mel Parnell, P
Dick Radatz, P

As for Babe Ruth, the fact of the matter is that, when he was with the Red Sox, he was a far better pitcher than he was a hitter. He was great, as a matter of fact - but certainly not top five all-time in team history.

[Dan in Pasadena]

MRM - I agree with you about Campanella, an outrageously great player that we not only never got to see what he would have done with a full career, but he also spent time in the Negro Leagues that could have been spent in the bigs. I suppose that is true of a lot of African American players of that era (just imagine Satchel Paige with a full big league career in his prime!).

As to the Dodgers "losing their soul" by moving to L.A....

We're being a little overly drammatic aren't we? I know the old Brooklyn fans are still upset. I can totaly relate. If the Dodgers left L.A. now, I'd be out of my mind. Did you know they've now played here in L.A. longer than they ever played in Brooklyn? That stat surprised me when I heard it. It was inevitable that a team was going to come West and O'Malley was being not only a good businessman (and a gambler AND a visionary) to accept the opportunity to come here.

Now, if you really want to talk about "losing their soul" compare the pre-West move accomplishments of the Giants. They have not enjoyed near the success since that they enjoyed before. The Dodgers have had resounding success over the years in L.A.

[CJFusco]

Originally posted by Dan in Pasadena

As to the Dodgers "losing their soul" by moving to L.A....

So... how about an all-time Dodgers team?

[MRM]

An all time Dodgers team? That's an excellent idea. I'll have to think about it a bit, but off the top of my head, Pitchers include Johnny Podres, Sandy Koufax and Don Drysdale. How about Don Sutton.

Pinch hitter/DH (even though it's the NL) is Kirk Gibson, getting double duty from the Tigers. With one swing of the bat he earned the right to immortality.

I'm open for suggestions on first base, third base and the outfield.

Second base I vote for Jackie Robinson and Sweet Lou Johnson.

For catcher of course Roy Campanella and John Newcomb.

I'll have to think of the rest.

Of course I was tongue in cheek about the Dodgers losing their souls when they went west. It happened before I was born, so I can't claim any shock and dismay over it. It's just the sort of thing Dodger fans are suppose to say if they're from anywhere but California.