Auction Prices

[rfn026]

The wheels are falling off at Barrett-Jackson. It wasn't a good idea to ban the New York Times from the media center. Now things are getting worse.

This is from Autoextremist.com

"Craig Jackson will stop at nothing to hype his Greed-fest, and he won't let anyone or anything stand in the way of his rampant orchestration of the sky-high prices there - especially the muscle car prices. It is an accepted fact now that in collector car circles there are two price points: The B-J price, which is inflated anywhere from 20 to 100 percent, and the "real" price - one that hasn't been boosted to high heaven by Jackson's Greed Posse. The Muscle Car Bubble? It's already here, folks."

At this point I don't know many people who actualy believe the B-J numbers. Or, are there that many stupid rich people running around?

Richard

[Rot 911]

Yes there are that many stupid rich people running around. They are paying huge dollars for cars that were mass produced and were not well made. There are just too muscle cars out there for the prices BJ is bringing. The bubble will eventually burst, but it think it will still be another 5-10 years.

[rcooled]

Greed-fest is right. These SRPs (Stupid Rich People) are even paying outrageous money for CLONES! The ONLY reason these poorly designed, cheaply made muscle cars are so expensive is the law of supply & demand. That they have any value at all stems from the fact that relatively few of them still survive. A clone fails to meet this one crucial criteria. The fact that they can be cranked out at will destroys the one thing that makes a muscle car valuable.....rarity.

[Crachian]

C'mon guys. SRP? What's two hundred grand for the car of your sixteen-year-old dreams plus being on TV plus all those pretty girls around and that filthy-rich plumbing contractor from Atlanta you drank with last year will be there and it's the best party of the year, maybe even a write-off. Who cares about the money? That's like twenty dollars to normal people like you and me, and it's been a very long time since twenty dollars bought me a good trip. It's not the rarity of the car now, it's the rarity of the car back then that makes it so desireable now.

Thank goodness it will never happen to 911s. Only smart rich people drive up 911 prices, and they're too smart to drop that kind of dough on a svelte little ride that doesn't look different enough from a new one.

[Dantilla]

I sure don't blame B-J for being excellent marketers. They just provide the forum for guys with big checkbooks, and even bigger egos to be seen on TV.

Being critical of the "greed fest" sounds like sour grapes to me. After all, B-J doesn't set prices. It's an auction.

[Hetmann]

It just an affluent baby-boomer thing. These cars will be cheap and plentiful once that is done.

[legion]

Originally posted by Dantilla
After all, B-J doesn't set prices. It's an auction.

Take a look into how they operate. There is a lot of price manipulation going on.

[speeder]

Originally posted by Hetmann
It just an affluent baby-boomer thing. These cars will be cheap and plentiful once that is done.

Exactly. I believe in the maxim that people collect cars that they wanted when they were young but could not afford at the time, and the people who were young adults in the 60s are getting old fast. Plus the fact that the muscle car boom gets played-out at some point, ie. everyone who wants one has one and most of the owners find out what original owners learned 40 years ago: the cars are high-powered garbage cans.

[Dantilla]

Originally posted by legion
Take a look into how they operate. There is a lot of price manipulation going on.

True. I happened to be in Scottsdale a few years ago during the auction, and stopped by for a few hours on my way to the Phoenix airport. Sure, there is manipulation. The energy level in the auction tent is amazing. But I still think that comes down to B-J's marketing skills. Nothing wrong with that. It's what all auctioneers strive for.

[VINMAN]

High-powered carbage cans? Not well made?

Seeing alot of P-car snobbery here!!

[tabs]

Originally posted by VINMAN
High-powered carbage cans? Not well made?

Seeing alot of P-car snobbery here!!

Ever ride in a MOPAR? One thing about these cars is that they are better now than when they came off the assembly line. Restorers spend alot of time on details...When was the last time a Motor City Product of the 60s have all the Door Sill Screws all lined up? So you might say they are over restored.

Last time there was a Classic Car bubble it was the Ferraris that were leading the charge...now U see nary a one at BJ.

[hardflex]

If those prices are legit, then the Arguments at Orange County Choppers must be too.....

[Stanley]

Looks like B-J might be in trouble for planting shill bidders and not following the rule that states all cars should get 3 minutes on the block. I could really care less about all this because it's all just super rich guys and their expensive toys.

http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=99547

January 27th, 2007 by fourwheeldrift
As a collector car journalist, I have been watching the Barrett-Jackson auction for years. For the last five or so years, it has been very apparent that the Scottsdale auction is at best a bastion of greed and manipulation…and at worse, all-out fraud.

I’ve discussed B-J with collectors, dealers and enthusiasts, many of whom would be considered “insiders,” meaning they’ve bought and sold cars at B-J and other auctions, or are well-known in the collector car hobby. For some reason, it is this year that people are all finally grumbling and passing rumors in unison.

The bottom line is that Craig Jackson and the B-J company have really screwed themselves this year. Their contracts specifically promise every car three minutes on the stand. Due to ego and greed, they expanded the Scottsdale ’07 auction to the point they could not provide this, plus they had the audacity to do it on live television.

A well-known former head judge in the Ford Thunderbird circles was one of the sellers who had his car short-timed. He has already filed a law suit against B-J, and this is already headed towards class-action status.
According to this judge and other sources, it appears Barrett-Jackson was operating a bit on the same level as an evangelical healing show. They had assistants milling around asking what specific sellers thought their cars would bring. Armed with this information at the control desk, if a lot passed the value at which a seller indicated he’d be happy, the car would be rushed off and the gavel would fall – even if bidding was still very much alive.

Because the event was televised on live television via the Speed TV network, the plaintiff(s) now have video/audio proof that buyers were signaling increased bids before the three-minute marks, but were denied by a too-fast last call and hammer.

While this all might cause Barrett-Jackson to have to pay money to sellers in the form of a judgment or settlement, it is something else that might land Craig Jackson in jail.

It is no secret that Barrett-Jackson owns many cars that are run through the auction – it was something I suspected many, many years ago. This was proven when they started maintaining a showroom of cars in Arizona. This is not illegal, but stay with me.

I’ve always suspected that the cars owned by Craig Jackson and the B-J company were often driven up by shill bidders working for the company. Essentially, the strategy works in the sense that ever since the auction focus moved from classics like Packards and Duesenbergs to muscle cars, B-J has been able to shill, say a Hemi Cuda or mid-year Corvette 427 they own, which causes the value of the 10 other identical cars to increase. They wind up “buying” their own car back, but the others go on to regular buyers, who now are paying higher because of the perception the market has moved up.

This suspicion has been validated by auction attendees this year that witnessed cars sold at auction headed in trailers back to B-J’s warehouse. The lawsuit allegedly points out that these cars also spent significantly more time on the block than others.

If this isn’t all interesting enough, during this year’s auction, fellow collector car journalist, Keith Martin of Sports Car Market, was booted from the Westworld premises and his media credentials revoked for voicing loud, specific concern regarding the event while sitting in the media room. Barrett-Jackson accused Keith Martin of “holding court” and attempting to send VIPs and journalists to the competing RM and Russo and Steele auction events. Among the alleged opinions included that the cars at B-J were of inferior quality (and had quality misrepresented,) as well as that the bidders were significantly over-bidding cars, which shouldn’t come as a surprise to anyone who has witnessed people paying six figures for cars they could have bought for under $50,000 any other day of the year!!!
This is somewhat of an interesting twist. Keith Martin’s publication has marketed the B-J events and has helped fuel its popularity. Keith is definitely one of the great “insiders” of the hobby, and has been a friend to Craig Jackson. In past years, Keith nor his publication have been critical of the goings-on and rumors, while other collector car journalists have been outwardly screaming that something stunk.

It makes sense, since Sports Car Market really only tracks the value of vehicles and other items sold at auction, rather than via private sales (which really has skewed SCM’s values for years!) So without kissing-ass to B-J, Keith would have missed insider info on the largest events covered by his mag. So we can only guess that Keith and Craig had a falling out of some type.

I applaud Keith for turning the corner on his view of B-J, but I’m with others I’ve talked to about this: I hate to say this about a colleague, but I felt his behavior was a bit unprofessional. As journalists, it is our responsibility to write what we think, but going to the show for years, then promoting RM and Russo+Steele while at Westworld is somewhat unprofessional. I agree that Keith, a true hobbyist who started out by writing an Alfa Romeo newsletter, was for a long time too much a part of the “circus” about which he finally rejected, and that SCM has to a significant degree helped to fuel misinformation and a house of cards regarding specific auction prices and bidding behavior. Keith, by all accounts, is a really good guy — an enthusiast, who maybe just needed to take a step back and a big breath and reacquaint himself with those outside of the very insulated collector car “in crowd” — and spend time with some car people who are not trying to exploit the collectors. There are plenty of guys who have dug themselves too deep into this little crowd, and are no longer fun to deal with, because they’ve put personal greed well ahead of the cars and the collectors. Keith will rebound — he has a great internal staff of really fantastic people, who hopefully will help him return to his roots.

That being said… While I’ve never met him, the buzz among those in the hobby — both collectors and journalists, is that Craig Jackson is quite arrogant, so don’t expect many to come to his rescue. He inherited his father’s company, and has fueled B-J’s growth with a combination of intelligence, drive, ego, and greed. While there is nothing wrong with that combination, when it results in unethical and possibly illegal activities, that’s inexcusable.

Like many surrounding the hobby, I will be watching the events unfold. Will the Westworld tents come down like a house of cards, or will everything just go away with an exchange of a little money? It’s hard to predict. Craig Jackson has become a very powerful man, and his company has pumped billions of dollars into the Arizona economy over the years.
This all being said, there’s no doubt that Barrett-Jackson “jumped the shark” this year. Unlike when Fonzi did it, Craig Jackson drove his allegedly shill-bid Hemicudas over the tank and down a ramp that could lead to six years in a minimum security prison-issued orange jumpsuit. If that’s the case, maybe he can get Sports Car Market in the slammer to keep-up on Russo and Steele, RM and Kruse auction results.

[bbaer6676]

Thats funny, I found some of keiths pricing in his porsche book to be a little low. a very interesting article though. I can really see stuff like that happening.