1 JC had good ideas but his followers suck mostly
esp when looked at in mass

2 DARK AGES 1000 years of church control of learning and thought only ended with reduction in church power by protestant reforms/splits and loss of total church control
from rome

3 ''da bloke who fiddled while his city burned.'' and the empire survived another 300 years after him
but fell quickly after the christian takeover and distruction of the old morals and culture
with huge loss of learning thanks to the church control

4 regressiver is closer to the truth
anti all progress, and worse

5 you make my point
married sex is not the point
and church teachings have even tried to take the joy out of that too

6 when you burn books and ban/close schools ect
then burn the teachers if they donot follow the church line
on many subjects from our place in the univerce to medical learning the church has tryed to silence people and ideas
and they are still at it today in our homeland
allmost all censorship is based on christian anti-sex ideas
from birth control info to anti-rock&roll record burnings
atheists donot seak to burn books or limit knowledge

7 ? not as many or over as long a time period
and why is that important anyway
one man killed by the religion of peace and forgiveness is too many, to kill millions is obscene

8 please do not seek to prey on me
your evil empire [church] is about to fall
lets hope that is not as costly to mankind as its rize was

I respect everyone's opionion

Even though I may "not accept, believe or understand it"

Are you sure you are not confusing this ?

I am not atypical of <><'s either.
But I will tell you what I believe in and what I belive is right or wrong.

We dont hold a gun to your head and say "you must believe and accept this"

Some people <><'s and non<><'s can be aholes and not respect your opionon, that is not what Jesus nor good manners taught us to do.

Peace out my brother

Still praying for you

SmileWavy :cool:

Some observations I stumbled across on another site:

Many people have discussed the supposed discovery of the family tomb of Jesus in a section of Jerusalem. The finding, which forms the basis of a Discovery Channel special next Sunday, purports to show that Jesus married Mary Magdalene and had a son named Judah, also buried at the tomb with his own ossuary:

New scientific evidence, including DNA analysis conducted at one of the world's foremost molecular genetics laboratories, as well as studies by leading scholars, suggests a 2,000-year-old Jerusalem tomb could have once held the remains of Jesus of Nazareth and his family.

The findings also suggest that Jesus and Mary Magdalene might have produced a son named Judah.

The DNA findings, alongside statistical conclusions made about the artifacts — originally excavated in 1980 — open a potentially significant chapter in Biblical archaeological history.

Well, maybe. The DNA analysis, which has been trumpeted without much explanation, does not identify the Jesus of the ossuary as the same Jesus in the Bible. All it does is show that the bones in a tomb that the researchers speculate belonged to Mary Magdelene have no familial relation to the bones in the Jesus ossuary. That is how the archeologists assumed that the two in this crypt were married, and that the Judah ben-Jesus of the ossuary had to be their offspring.

This shows why pop science rarely delivers anything but entertainment. I enjoy Simcha Jacobovici in his incarnation as "The Naked Archeologist", but I don't pretend that the show is anything more than a superficial and oversimplified trek through history. The speculations made by the team working on the Talpiot tomb show how a series of assumptions can lead to a wild and likely incorrect conclusion.

Let's take a few things in the context of the times. Jesus was a well-known agitator whose crucifixion creates a cult following, in the eyes of the Romans and the leading Jews of the time. The basis of that cult formed around the notion that Jesus rose from the dead. If the Romans knew where his body was buried, why then did they not produce it as proof of his immutable death? In order to be placed in an ossuary, he would have to lie in the tomb for a year, decomposing to skeletal remains. During that time, the Romans could easily have produced the body -- or the cult followers could have stolen it and buried it elsewhere to prevent it.

The familial ties also seem rather odd. In the first generation of Jesus, no one mentions his marriage or family. Yet his familiy and followers -- ossuaries of Matthew and James are supposedly among the discoveries -- supposedly felt it of no moment to bury him with his wife and son, despite their refusal to acknowledge a marriage. By the time his son would have died, the Gospels would already have been written and prophesied in the region and further to Greece and Rome.

And all of this evidence would have been left in the open, in a tomb in the middle of the largest city in the region, where anyone could have discovered it.

I'm sorry, but this relies on faith at least as much as the Christian religion does, and contradicts common sense. It's nonsense. None of this makes any sense at all, but I'll bet it sells lots of advertising. (h/t: CQ reader Peyton R)

Well all of this gnashing of teeth and wringing of hands will be over soon. The second coming of Jesus is at hand. In fact, he's already here! Come to find out, it's some Puerto Rican guy down in Florida! Who woulda known?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16840066/site/newsweek

All of you Christians can rejoice now.

not now
they seek to use the state's power to do that
by control of our goverment
and laws based on their reading of ''god's will''
from censorship to sex laws and the war on drugs
the church supports the state's gunmen
in the resent past the church did use it's own arms
and tryed to force people to believe or BURN

Some would like to:

http://web.archive.org/web/20051001063230/reandev.com/taliban/

Some of my favorites:

Ann Coulter: "We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity. We weren't punctilious about locating and punishing only Hitler and his top officers. We carpet-bombed German cities; we killed civilians. That's war. And this is war."

Randall Terry: "I want you to just let a wave of intolerance wash over. I want you to let a wave of hatred wash over you. Yes, hate is good...Our goal is a Christian nation. We have a biblical duty, we are called by God to conquer this country. We don't want equal time. We don't want pluralism."

and...

"When I, or people like me, are running the country, you'd better flee, because we will find you, we will try you, and we'll execute you. I mean every word of it. I will make it part of my mission to see to it that they are tried and executed."

Some - not all - but some of you folks are scary.

Wow. I guess someone believes in the stereotypes, eh?

But to your point - respect cannot ever be demanded - it is always earned - Christian, non-Christian, Muslim, Jew, athiest - whatever.

But blanketly stating that Christians do not respect others -- well, I suppose that shows lack of respect for those who do not believe the way do you. And that makes it a bit difficult for you to change your views on those pesky Christians now, doesn't it?

A bit narrow minded, if I may be so bold to say... pot, meet keetle.

-Z-man, one of them "disrespectful" Christian types. :rolleyes:

Yeah, come on - let's get grounded here people.

Let's have a round table discussion about how we've all learned to think discriminately, pragmatically and sensibly through our childhood learnings about virgin birth and the resurrection of JC, etc. etc.

Let's talk common sense here, or let's not talk at all! Not this science hokus-pokus mumbo jumbo superstitious irrational BS.

We really need to get back to old time religion and get busy selling what really needs to be sold. The world's getting a little short on war, destruction and hate.

The m/o continues.
And it's about as persuasive as it's ever been.

Though it's allowed me to coin a new term. Fear of context: "Purryphobia"

JP

Too funny JP. So you have fear-of-Purry? Flattering I suppose.

Thanks for that. I was going for shock and awe- but I'll settle for fear.

Fear? No. But Awe at your capacity for self-delusion, which is evident in your self-regard.

Your perpetual reading comp failures continue, demonstrating an absolute lack of shame as well. "I fear context. I have Purryphobia" It's an eponym.

Once yet again, I'd neither said nor implied anything about any divine nature of Jesus or anybody and simply cited an interesting contextual piece about the assumptions (counter-logical assumptions) being made about this being Christ's tomb.

To which, naturally, you reply with some ascribed virgin birth, anti-Christianity inanity. Which, as always, had nothing to do with what I said or quoted, beclowning yourself yet again.

JP

exactly !

I know what the church did in recent times, but what people have to understand, that MAN made assumptions and interpretations have no bearing on what being a <>< is all about.

I know the attricties that people did and STILL do in the name of religion, they can even say till there blue in the face that it is in the name of Christ.

MY Jesus said that "you love one another as yourself" "you forgive your agressors as you would have other people forgive you"

in other words Jesus loves and forgives you and as a <>< you MUST do the same.

its is very difficult.

but I respect your POV as stated......


seee, I respect you...

so as we would say, "cause Adjourned, tried and tested, thrown outta court"

as previously stated,

I care not what religious fanatics say nor do.

I know the truth and I know what the word says'

PEACE

my lack of respect is based on the christians long history of actions not their beliefs

or to quote the bible
by their actions not their words
you shall know them

while the worst of those acts have been recently limited by laws ie they can no long burn witches in the public square I see little reduction in the desire of some to do so

I see no need to tolerate the intolerant
esp when a fool like BuSh2 runs this country and people like FOULWELL have his ear and plan active church/goverment programs ie faith based BS
that I think is against the laws

You have bamboozled me with your words, slandistorised me with you multitudious angwist

I think I shall pray for you 2 my brother.

We are from God, and whoever knows God listens to us;
but whoever is not from God does not listen to us.
This is how we recognize the Spirit of truth and the spirit of falsehood.

You should. They do things like fly airplanes into buildings. They bomb subway trains. They murder doctors that perform abortions. According to some on PPOT, Islamic fanatics are soon going to force you to convert to Islam at gunpoint. It seems that should concern you.

*Your* Jesus might not advocate violence, but how do you know that the Jesus of your neighbor doesn't? The Jesus of some of the people quoted in my earlier post certainly advocates violence.

More info on the discovery here: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17328478/site/newsweek/

So because some of today's Christians you know or are aware of have actions that are inappropriate, you feel that all Christians should be blacklisted? That is just as narrow-minded as saying that all Muslims are terrorists.

And why are you bringing President Bush into this argument? You seem to imply that if any Christian were in that position, they would rule the same way. So then I suppose that any athiest would also put communism back on the map, assuming that Karl Marx was an athiest. Politics and religion don't mix. (Side note: is athiesm a religion? Well, if you define religion as a belief system, then indeed it is...)

What's next? That we're all a bunch of televangelists that only seek to exploit the sheeple what we lead in order to buy fancy cars and big houses? For the record, I drive a Subaru, and live in a nice middle class suburban home. I suppose I must have missed the "How to Become a Televangelist in 5 Easy Steps" sermon... :rolleyes:

-Z-man.

I have no BLACK LIST
or any plans to form one
or any plan of action for or against anyone
other then internet debates

BuSh2 is talking about "HIS" god and plans
like the faith based program
people like FOULWELL do have BuSh2's ear
I bet dollars to doe-nuts my call to the whitehouse
will not get past the operator but FOULWELL's WILL GET THRU
or at least be returned
and the christian right does have a plan for our goverment and BuSh2 seems to support at least parts of it
and has rased huge amounts of cash for the GOP to move the so called family [christian] values in to national and state laws

while I agree ''Politics and religion don't mix'' I fear the people who donot believe that to be true and think BuSh2 is one of them

while the goverment does have an active censorship program
and has leveled huge fines thru the FCC
I know of no program to get the televangelists off the public airways
and hear little condemnation of the televangelists except then one gets caught in a sex and/or money stealing mess

is not JC quoted in the bible take one shirt and no money when you go to preach my message
think any televangelists has one shirt or no money??