Lost job..thinking of working as pilot again..
 

Some of you other pilot fellas knew that I worked around 12 years as a pilot. I flight instructed for sevreal years before moving off into the dark side of aviation..yes, Part 135. I was a freight dog for three different air cargo outfits and did international air ambo work, too. Most of my work was everywhere, but the far and middle east I guess you could say. I was a learjet captain. I'm only typed in the 20, 30 and 55 series airplanes. No plan to return to jets. I do miss teaching, though. I was a good teacher and enjoyed it..have a gold seal on my CFI ticket with all ratings.

Here's the thing: I haven't touched a yoke in over three years. What I want to do is just go back to my roots and be a flight instructor. Yeah, i know the pay sucks..and the little airport where i would work again..the airplanes suck. beat up, worn out C-152, C-172, Piper Warrior, Tomahawk and a DC-3 of all things..lol. My job in medical research comes to an end the end of this month and I've hated it. I don't really like going into a lot of detail over why I left aviation in the first place, but I'll address it. I'm 41 now, and at that time, around 36-37 was on top of my game to make a jump to a major or somewhere better...something..scheduled..where my nerves were no longer 'shot' from living on call for so many years. My CFI certificates are current, but haven't gone to get a medical yet. Wife drove me out to the airport late one night last week for the first time in all those years as a 'surprise'..took pics of me sitting in little trainers I'd worked in the early 90's. It really teared me up to be back out there..I've just avoided it all this time, trying to forget about it since I quit it.

Should I go for it? I mean, I'd have some major rust to knock off and all the old timers and folks I'd taught so many years ago would get to see me practically starting over from scratch. I'm nervous, too..gotta pull out all the old books and re-learn everything I've tried to forget for the past 3-4 years. Just wanna get some opinions. i know it's my life..would like to hear what you other pilots have to say..or anyone for that matter, hell I don't care.
Ryan

I'm in a very similar situation. I used to fly cargo for a *****ty air cargo outfit based out of Burbank (you probably know who I mean if you've been in the biz). I miss the flying terribly. Like you, I haven't seen a cockpit in about 3 years either. It's simply too expensive to do on my own dime. I'm contemplating going back to a local FBO, getting current again and maybe picking up a student or two part-time on weekends, but it's still a pretty significant cash outlay out of my own pocket.

The good thing is, I have a great job now (in another field) that pays well. If I were in your situation and out of work and/or not happy with what I was doing, I'd STRONGLY consider going back. The thought of languishing along on crappy $10-an-hour paychecks while flying *****ty, dilapidated airplanes into craphole towns that God forgot about isn't all that appealing - but the flying is. I used to say that flying was the best job in the world once the wheels were in the wells - and it was. The problem is that (1) there are too many "carrot danglers" in the business that simply abuse/exploit over-eager aviators with promises of upgrades that never happen (". . . think of the valuable experience you're getting!") and (2) no movement. 9/11 killed the industry. There are still THOUSANDS of pilots out there that already have type ratings and lots of time in jets that have been out/furloughed/doing other things for a while. Why are they going to pick a low-time 3,500-ish hour guy with just a few hours of turbine time over that?

The days of the $300,000-a-year jet captain that works 15 days a month are gone. You can certainly make a decent salary in the left seat of an RJ or whatever, but how many years to you have to eat ***** and make $20k-a-year as a F.O. first? It simply ain't worth it.

Sorry to sound bitter - I'm not. I'm grateful for having been able to have the experience at all. I pine for my flying days EVERY DAY!!! Every time I see an airplane, I get jealous. I want to fly again so bad it kills, but it's financial suicide for me. In your situation I'd definitely consider it!

Ryan - just do it. You'll prolly go back stronger than you were before. G'luck

Jeff...I never knew you were a fellow brother! :) Yeah, sounds like you can totally relate. Even with double that total time, I'm not marketable for having left the industry..they wanna know why you left and that's a big penalty. besides, i honestly miss the teaching..and I don't mind the ****ty airplanes and dunghole airports around the state. Bring 'em on. The only thing is that I'm not sure what i can earn. When i quit instructing, all i was doing were advanced ratings..mostly instrument and the occasional CFI, multi or commercial. i kinda miss the private pilot stuff..the basics. Funny thing though..I was really fumbling around in the dark trying to identify things..and when I crawled into the Warrior in the dark? I couldn't even find the damn master switch! Jeeez.. ;)

Thanks, Mark. I really appreciate it. I'm going to be a laughingstock of a pilot for a while.. :( I can just see my first landing...

Go for it! If you don't, in 2017 you'll be looking back and wondering - every day - why you didn't.

3 years will melt away quickly; if you had the hands then, you probably still do.

Jim

Re: Lost job..thinking of working as pilot again..
 

http://www.tigersweat.com/images/air11.jpg

thanks, jim...i'm sure you're right...just gotta go through that 'weird, uncomfortable' stage where i'm behind even in a c-150 for at least a little while :)

the...the... ur bad! ;)

Ryan- I will tell you that there is a serious shortage of pilots coming up....Especially qualified experienced pilots. When I left flight instructing 7 years ago I was doing OK money wise but I had virtually no responsibilities. I was mostly instructing in Bonanzas and Barons which allowed me to set my prices at decent levels. With your experience you should be able to knock the rust off and market yourself as an advanced instructor.

At the time I was teaching the insurance companies were requiring 1000TT and 250 in type to teach in any Bonanza. Generally the insurance company asked for 10 to 25 hours of dual from a qualified instructor in order for the owner to fly solo. Insurance requirements are really the only thing that stands between new owners and their aircraft so they are willing to pay decent money for the instruction. I learned everything I could about the aircraft type and developed a comprehensive lesson plan, perhaps you can get in good with your local insurance provider. There aren't that many experienced instructors around.

There is money to be made in instructing, it just takes proper marketing. The flight schools can't keep instructors around these days with all the regionals clammering to get people in the door, some are even hiring with 500TT or less!

I wouldn't say going to the regionals is the answer for you or if it is something you'd even want to try. My schedules are generally 14 days off with 85 to 90 hours of credit. The block time ends up around 75 to 80 hours. But I've been there for 6 years, the worst I've had was sitting airport ready reserve every day of the month except my 10 days off. It's a good thing SLC has a golf course on the airport because they never called me once.

Apparently the number of pilot certificates issued has severely declined in the past few years, down to half of what it was 5 years ago. I'm sure it's due to the pilot job not being so great any more. It is much more common these days to be making anywhere from $17K (my first year!) to $90K flying an RJ than $250K flying a heavy.

As I said earlier there is a huge shortage of pilots with real experience and understanding of aviation. At some points I'd rather have you in the right seat with all your rusty steam gauge experience than some of the green horns I've flown with.

Do it, Big Man.

If you do it and they're looking for people (and willing to extend a chance to guys that haven't been in the seat in 3+ years) definitely let me know. I'm beginning to wonder if I should take another swing at it now that I'm reading all this. . .

Do it.

Ryan, I know nothing about being a pilot and I shouldn't - I'm a semi-white knuckles flyer everytime I travel. But I do know you only regret in life the things you DIDN'T do, almost never the things you do.

Taken from a long perspective I think Jeff is giving you the exact right answer. There was (apparently) a time that you loved flying and did it solely for the joy of doing it. Only later did it come at a cost. You might find you understand the cost better now, have a better perspecitve on it and are more at peace with all it brings. Plus you'll be doing for a vocation what you once did for an avocation...and I find it hard to think that could be bad. Best of luck in your decision, Dan

Ryan, you're in Little Rock, right? Easy commute to DFW. Why not give the 'ol Eagle a try? Things are starting to pick up here as AA flowback captains (about 300 of them) go back to AA. This is causing quite a bit of movement for new hires. I can tell you that I'd love to have a guy with your experience level working with me. The average new hire we get these days is a 1,000 hr CFI/regional academy grad with no jet experience at all. We are having a hard time even filling classes here. Why don't you think about them, fill out an app, see if you get an interview offer, interview, and THEN decide if you want to go this direction.

For a pilot like you, I think you'd really enjoy the work. The big regionals enjoy top-flight training and very, very well maintained airplanes (very different from your old job).

If you're interested, PM me. I'm a check-airman so I might be able to help out.

Go for it.....http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1174078686.jpg



You know you want to fly....

Most flight instructors around here do not make much money at all. They are basically just doing it as a stepping stone. Unless money is not important at all, wouldn't you be better off flying cargo or people?

Ryan, you go!!
 

Yep, you can do it, Ryan!!

I'll agree with Scott about the maintenance. It's really nice when something breaks and you can just call MX to come out and fix it. It's somewhat rare at my airline to have big items deferred, sounds the same over at Eagle.

There also isn't the same pressure to "get in" that I've heard about at the cargo operations. If you can't meet the weather mins you just don't go.

Oh, almost forgot, the travel benefits are worth it alone (if you use them). How about being able to travel to just about anywhere in the world for basically next to nothing - and if you travel on AA to, say, London for example, you can almost always get a nice lay-down, go to sleep (after eating fine food and drinking champagne/wine first), first class seat for about $100 each way. It's one of the nice perks of the job.

I say do it if that's what your heart is telling you... I'd KILL for the chance to be in your shoes!

After the rules got so silly in the wake of 9/11, I stayed away from the airport for a couple of years. Lots of new "Temporary Flight Restrictions", but they wouldn't show them on a map. It wasn't worth the risk of being intercepted by F-16s.

When things returned back to semi-normal, I thought it would take some time to renew my skills, but I found it's just like riding a bike. After an hour or two, it felt like I never left.

I guess all that simply means, if you want to get back in the left seat, don't worry about shaking the rust off. Just go fly.

wow, thanks for all the great advice, guys..i didn't expect to hear much input. i probably should have done the regionals years ago when my other friends were doing it, instead i made the jump to 135, progressed quickly and began making great $$. would do it differently if i had it to do all over again.

scott, i appreciate the offer. if i get interested into looking into the eagle, i'd certainly pm you. right now i'm just thinking of instructing. tim, i know the pay sucks..it sucked when i did it years ago when i was billing $25 an hour freelancing advanced ratings only. too bad i couldn't bill at that rate for 8 hours a day..today i could charge more, but seems you wind up billing for around 4 hours a day no matter how many 'hours' you work. point is that i used to enjoy the work. the last year as a lear captain, making 6-figures, i hated it and was realllly burnt out. i hear you guys about good equipment and bad weather. the chief pilot at the last company i worked for, an air ambo outfit, wanted to make sure that i understood that 'we deviate for weather here..' the freight dog, plow-thru-anything attitude preceded me. they wanted to make sure that i wouldn't fly nurses, patients and their families through the crap you routinely busted through flyin' rubber dog ****.. ;)

Follow your gut first, your heart second.

Go for it and dont look back.

Ryan, remember, the offer always stands so if you decide in, say, a year, to try the interview, pm me.

thanks, scott. they're building a new airport not far from me right outside of little rock..saline country airport, km99 i believe is the identifier. just had a grand opening this past friday..thought i might go by and see if a free-lancer could work outa the fbo. i gotta pull out all the old books though..i need a flight review myself, although now i understand that i could fly without a medical and give instruction to a pilot who has a current medical/flight review. we'll see. thanks so much again for the offer. i do miss the old lears.

I admire all the pilots here on Pelican. When I was in high school back in the late '60's, I had to go see the career counseler about what I wanted to do in life.

I said, I want a 4 year degree and come out being an airline pilot. I don't want to go in the military because I'm tired of parents/teachers telling me what to do..

He said: You have the grades and all the talent for the job....I've heard stories of you riding your motorcycle and know you would do a good job, BUT - you wear glasses and have to be 20-20, uncorrected. Forget about being a pilot...

One of the saddest days of my life....Had to figure out what was my 2nd choice......

20/40 uncorrected vision and color vision issues for me. Those issues ultimately didn't stop me from living my childhood dream, however.

My parents almost sank my career before it started (I wanted to be an airline pilot all my life) back when I was in my teens by telling me the same thing people told you back then. Lucky for me, I was waiting in the Quad at UCI for a Poly Sci course that I hated and saw a light plane fly overhead heading for the pattern at my local airport. I decided to ditch the class and went and found the biggest flight school there and took a "Demo" ride for $25. Best $25 I ever spent because it was then and there that I found out you do NOT need 20/20 vision to fly professionally. A year or two later, I was talking with a guy in school who's dad was an AA pilot and he told me that his dad was color deficient but had gotten a waiver from the FAA by taking a test of sorts that demonstrated he could identify aviation red, green, and white light signals shot from the airport Tower at night and could also identify the various greens and browns on a VFR chart. That did it for me. Long story short, I did the same test and got a lifetime First Class Medical Waiver from the FAA for deficient color vision and never looked back. That was back in the mid eighties or so. Interestingly, I ended up instructing at the same school I took my Demo flight at years before and spent some time as the assistant chief instructor there.

I haven't had a real job since I started that job back in '89 (at least that's what it feels like to me anyway). ;)

scott, similar story for me. began with a $25 intro flight. i was living in st. augustine florida, about to attend the fire academy in the early 90's. i dropped in on the flight school i'd pass every day on the way out to the fire school..and found that i had more in common with the folks learning to fly. i spent the money on the intro flight, bought a private pilot manual and spent the weekend thinking. the following monday i began my flight training..ditched the fire academy.

Ryan,

You have mentioned some problems with depression and medication in the past. How long since you have had any issues and or taken any medication?

Reason I am asking is that on a FAA medical you have to self disclose anything you have taken or medical treatment WITHIN THE LAST 3 YEARS. If you are ok within the last 3 years then push ahead. If you do not do this or "forget to self disclose" and the Feds find out its jail time, so best to be honest.

If you have any medical issues, then join AOPA and ask their AeroMedical folks. They saved me years ago when I was first starting out (eye muscle issue) and hand walk your paperwork into the chief Doctors office in OKC.

If you feel like you want to do it then give it a try again. There is nothing wrong with being an instructor if thats what you are interested in or try with 450k and the commuters. As well I have a friend flying medivac in Hot Springs if you are interested in that...

The future is very good in aviation, especially if you are experienced. If you need a hand, PM or email me, glad to help anyway I can.

Joe A

My wife's company is hiring 70 pilots/month right now and having a hard time finding enough.

I had a medical issue a few years ago where the doctor had an A/C vent right over the place you'd stand for the eye test. Well the air was blowing hard enough to make my eyes water and I couldn't pass the test 20/20. He put a limitation "must wear corrective lenses" on my medical. I called AOPA and they told me the correct forms to take to my optometrist for a real eye test. The FAA took it off of my medical and I haven't had a problem since. At some point I will need corrective lenses but it was a nice lesson in paperwork and finding the right AME.

Another thought is for you to get back into the swing of things with aviation, start instructing, and set yourself up for the Very Light Jet market. I'm sure there will be a lot of people looking for instruction in the new VLJs and someone with your experience would be valued as an instructor. Your jet time would be something rare.

VLJ market...not bad idea for down the road perhaps. hmmm...thanks! :)

Be the ball Ryan - see your future...

Ryan,

Since your posting this I have done some research for you. There is a large number (10+) adverts in the last month or two of people looking for Lear pilots.

If you decide to go this route and change your mind about going back into Lears, pls let me know. Yes you are out of currency but that can be taken care of and you have PIC time in the bird, which helps.

Let me know if you need some help in this...

Joe