I would rather pay $4 a gallon for fuel the $5 for a loaf of bread.


http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/05/business/05ethanol.html?ex=1325653200&en=0445ca46cd92b98e&e i=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss

The more talk and action regarding using ethanol and other alternative fuels, the more the petroleum industry listens. Then gas prices will drop to encourage consumption just like any other commodity. We can duplicate that same effect by pushing back and reduce usage, even slightly. What if everyone took public transportation to work, school, massage parlor just one day a week?

Not a petroleum apologist.
Sherwood

Great article, John

It clearly shows that we've been misled by the politicians and renewable fuels industry. So, what happens to the etanol industry if crude prices fall into the $40 range and corn prices move higher than $4/bushel? Last year when ethanol traded at $3.50/gal, regular unleade was selling for less than the 10% ethanol mix even with the government subsidies.

Gary

The state of Indiana produces a LOT of corn. It was stated by a Purdue university expert as follows: "if all the ethanol plants under construction or planned in Indiana were to buy Indiana corn, we could not supply them". So, my take on this is if another company needs corn, well its just too bad. Supply and demand. Food prices will go through the roof. These plants are popping up all over Indiana, and for what?

Quote from gduke:

"there's no manipulation of prices."

Where have you been? Siberia, perhaps in deep freeze?

Prices are manipulated daily on the markets, by those who produce, sell, buy, speculate, the list goes on....

If the Saudi's sneeze, the price goes up. If the Nigerians have a pipeline explosion, the price skyrockets.

This discussion, like many before, does nothing to actually curb demand, take into account the ongoing grow in the Asia, or understand that the real solutions are not just the "magic fat pill that will cause a 50% weight loss in just 10 days."

Your worries about corn prices are well founded, but what you should understand is the shortages that will arise are going to affect all of the "gift" programs the US has (with regard to poor/subsidized countries).

The price is irrelevant in this model, to a certain extent, because if the product is unavailable, people will starve.

What will this breed? More anti-American unrest, famines, and other balances in the economic systems.


The bottom line is that the powers that be, won't do anything to "help" the situation unless there is great profit in it.

regards---rhjameshttp://www.pelicanparts.com/support/smileys/pc2.gif

I think you'll find that the farmers (even the big corps) aren't the one profiting the most from ethenol - it's guys that supply the fertilizer and seeds. I bet ADM makes more from corn than the farmers themselves make.

-Chris

The bottom line is that the powers that be, won't do anything to "help" the situation unless there is great profit in it.

Or votes.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by gduke
[B] I know many from big oil and corn and bean farmers. I can say with out a wink that big oil are the villains. All the farmers I knew and know (from farms with 500 acres to 10,000 acres) are not living that high on the hog so to speak. They work everyday and subside on a paycheck maybe twice a year. They are tighter with their bankers than you could imagine. Some days are spent cultivating, planting, spraying or combining fields. Not that glamorus in fact it is down right boring, real boring. To make matters worse they have to suffer a short window of opportunity to get certain chores done or their yield suffers. Add that on top of know which fertilizer, seed, drill depth / spacing, pest control, weed control and when to do it all only adds to the stress of running leased or owned equipment which costs more than many of our homes which they are also responcible for maintaining. God forbid that a drought occurs or hail - oh ya, crop insurrance should cover it (if you can afford it).

What the heck, these tractors all run on love right? Nope, try diesel. You know that stuff that is now more expensive than gas. Add all that into a flux market built on futures and speculation.

Farmers the villains? Surprising that you would feel this way coming from Iowa Gary?

diesel had been more "expensive" than gasoline, for years----where have you guys been?http://www.pelicanparts.com/support/smileys/sleep.gif


this country runs on diesel. (the world, for that matter) Ex: trucks, trains, farm equipment, construction equipment, ships (although ocean going is #5 fuel oil).

2010 diesel tailpipe emissions will be cleaner than the air inhaled through the intakes (trucking industry) .

the real solutions are coal based diesel with a smattering of bio-diesel, removal of boutique fuel blends (make it all the same-regardless of locality), and wind/solar/with a resurgence of nuclear for electrical power generation.

Anything else is just "talk".


regards---rhjameshttp://www.pelicanparts.com/support/smileys/pc2.gif