911+Mountain Roads+Cyclists?

[MOMO3.2]

I live in Los Angeles County right at the foot of many sublime mountain roads. One such road is literally blocks from my driveway. I love driving these roads in my Porsche.

I would describe my driving as spirited, but well under control. When I am in my 911 for a fun drive, my goal is to drive each section of road "well". I typically avoid all challenges by testosterone charged drivers in Taurus's, Infinities, or Ford F150's. In fact, I have yielded to drivers in each of the previously named vehicles in the past few months as well as a gaggle of Sport Bike riders that wanted to prove they had a death wish by fully committing to high speed sweepers at speeds much faster than I would ever dare in my 911.

Anyway, over the past two years, the number of bicyclists that use these mountain roads has increased exponentially. The fact is, the odds that I may be involved in an incident with a bicyclist have become a real issue.

If I am not able to drive my Porsche in a spirited manner in the local mountains, I really don't see any logic in keeping it.

What are other people's thoughts/solutions for this dilemma? It would be especially nice to hear a few solutions from cyclists.

Mike

FWIW: I have a mountain bike. I ride it through the neighborhood to bike trails where I don't compete with cars for my uphill workouts and downhill thrills.

[randywebb]

Bikes compete with pedestrians (or hikers if Mtn. Bikes) and with cars (or horses).

We recently had a logging truck driver kill a well-known scientist (at OSU) on a bike near here. No ticket.

Surely there are some roads further away with no bikes? Their legs can't be that powerful.

[Walter_Middie]

Mike,

I regularly ride my bicycle on the most interesting roads around my neighborhood. I also know that my favorite road is a favorite of the sports cars, crotch rockets, and even the local Porsche crowd. I've heard the Porsche group say the same thing you are - they worry about me when they are using the road. I've been passed by my share of fast moving vehicles - and I'll gladly take one of them over the little old lady in a 1974 Valient that just rides my butt and refuses to pass. From a bicycles perspective - a sports car is usually well driven and the driver is paying attention. I have more trouble with old ladies and pick-up trucks. Just keep it in control and remember that you are sharing the road with everyone. Take the really fast stuff to the track.

[hytem]

I usually take a Sunday morning drive through scenic backroads in the country, and the cyclists can be a problem in the warmer months. Unfortunately, there are no cycle paths, and they often cycle in the middle of the road. A honk does the job, but sometimes they are in large groups--and you just have to wait for them.

Getting behind 30 mph Sunday drivers is just as bad.

[dd74]

Mike - the problem here is not just the mountain roads. It's the traffic in general. L.A., land of the car and free-spirited driving as we might see in old 1950s black and white footage is laughable these days. As to cyclists, I think they are hardly a problem, IMO, except on very twisty portions such as Mulholland heading west toward Malibu, where they slow uphill travel.

With that said, not by any means would I part with my car simply because of traffic or impediments toward spirited driving on twisty mountain roads. Instead, I suggest you look into other options such as:

1) A different time of day when you won't run across (no pun intended) cyclists. Try driving very early in the morning or at dusk. The roads might be more free then.

2) A race track. Since I've been going to the track, I barely even consider mountain roads anymore for my pleasure driving. Plus, race tracks are much safer than mountain roads.

[Danny_Ocean]

Public roads are not the place for "spirited driving". Period. (Err...with the exception of organized events where the roads are closed to all traffic but the registered participants).

[rdane]

I put a lot more miles on my bikes last year than i did on my 911, 5000+. I'll do even more this year. The reason for the increased mileage was because I got whacked by a SUV the previous fall on my bike. Knee cartilage transplants and rehab means I have to ride a lot to keep the knee working without pain.

So......

The best roads in our area to drive on are also the best ones to drive in a spirited manner. Sadly not every driver (911 or not) is aware of the law or the bike rider's rights to the highway. Like the fact that a bike can actually ride down the middle of the road when required, and that they don't have to run on the outside of the fog line, all quite legally. But Porsche drivers are generally a lot better informed and careful than everyone else driving around so I can't complain about Porsche drivers. Other drivers? In our area it can be down right dangerous on any public road with traffic. The best roads (the perfect Porsche roads) are generally the safest because of lack of traffic and the slower pace everyone but the 911s and sports cars typically drives.

Although only a few bike riders have given me the one finger salute as a comment to my 911 driving I have intentionally changed when I drive (and do group drives) to specifically avoid bikes.

Best way to avoid bikers is to go really, really early when the temps are down or drive after dark.

FWIW even a "bump" the rider can easily ride away from might well be $50K just in medical bills and a full year in rehab if my accident was any example. That is with no damage to the vehicle and no damage to my bike. My attorney who specializes in bike/car incidents says I was on the lucky side both in injuries and medical costs.

Best case is just slow down and take the faster driving to open roads or the track.

[MOMO3.2]

DD74:

The cyclists are NOT a problem on the more open portions of mountian roads. They never have been for me. This is because I have common sense and I respect their rights and safety. I am bright enough to know that cyclists are exposed to a much higher degree of danger than I am while in the safety of my 911.

The PROBLEM for me is that the cyclists in my local area AND cyclists in the Mulholland/Malibu area have migrated in mass to the super tight, steep portions of road they used to never travel on (Decker Canyon, Stunt Rd., etc... and Chantry Flats Rd., Glendora Mnt. Rd., in my area). The margin for error is way too small at times. Super tight blind turns that lack any real shoulder make things tricky. My honest opinion is that cyclists traveling these sections of road are taking far to big a risk. If a full size vehicle traveling within the speed limit encounters a cyclist at a critical portion of a turn with oncoming traffic, it is lights out!

Honestly, I think the cyclists are ignorant fools to ride these portions of road.

And, there really is no time during daylight hours that the cyclists are not out there. It could be a fatal error on anyone's part to think "It's early, no one else will be out here."

Next, as far as driving to a more remote location, that may be the best answer, But, we are talking pretty remote because these guys drive their road bikes out to the same remote areas to ride.

Danny, I know you must be kidding because you have posted some whoppers in the past about driving in ways I never would...

Finally, please do not read this and try to vilify or pigeonhole me as a reckless, risk taker on the road. I am not. I wrote "spirited driving" not racing or reckless driving.

Mike

[TargaFlorio]

Get a louder horn or better yet; louder pipes.

Cheers,
n.

_
http://nicolashunziker.com

[ficke]

One of the problems we have in Tucson is bicycle riders who do not "share the road" with cars or trucks. Most riders or very good but there are the few who ride side beside in the driven lane for cars. Luckily I have the exhaust on my heavy diesel truck aimed at the left side for those riders

[MOMO3.2]

rdane:

I am sorry about your injury. That really is horrific.

The roads I am talking about here are WAY too dangerous for cyclists to be sharing with ANY cars. All the "right-of-way" in the world is not going to help after an SUV climbs up the rear of a bicycle.

These roads, however, are relatively safe for cars being driven in a sane manner. The cyclists, frankly, ruin it.

Mike

[PorscheGuy79]

So thats why they put those baseball card in the spokes, to make themselves visible.

[Danny_Ocean]

Originally posted by MOMO3.2
Danny, I know you must be kidding because you have posted some whoppers in the past about driving in ways I never would...

Finally, please do not read this and try to vilify or pigeonhole me as a reckless, risk taker on the road. I am not. I wrote "spirited driving" not racing or reckless driving.

You must be thinking of someone else. I have never posted about driving like a maniac. My daily (weekend) drive is from home to the beach & back. No twisities (or hills) here.

Whatever you wish to call it, "spirited driving", etc. should not take place on a public road that is shared with other motorists, bicyclists, pedestrians, animals, etc.

[oldskhool]

but if you sold it, you would get this....
back with the same problem.
just keep it.
anyways nate wants it.
(he does like coopers and lotus's though,lol)

[look 171]

Momo,

I don't know if I have a solution, but I know what you are talking about. I am in and in and out of Pasadena 4-5 times a week. I used to train for races through out these mountain roads and city streets for the past 20+ years. You name it, I have done it. I have done it with the large groups and alone forwards and backwards. I was doing 400 miles a weeks. I have not had too much problems with drivers, because I communicate with them. Today, many cyclist would just sit and grind up on a hill in the middle of the lane and basically say screw you I have the right to do so, so blow me attitude. I look at these people like the ones that are driving in the # 1 lane on the 210fwy doing 65. what do you do???

You have to pick your route these days. get up over the ranger station pass Wilson and there will be only a few hand full guys riding there. These guys are serious and know the rules of the road. Big T is another one because it is steep, only the a very few hard core guys will be there. Chantry Flat, forget it, everyone's there because it doesn't go anywhere and there are fewer cars going up there. The lower section of the crest, drive like you have a baby in the car.

Don't give up your 911 you just have travel into the hills to open it up. get over Buckhorn. You'll like it up there.


I quit a few years back due to spending too much time with my business. I missed riding down San Monica Blvd all the way to the ocean. Talk about a rush when dealing with the trucks and buses and soccer moms there. How about loosing the cars behind you coming down Beverly Glen. Get up and away, you will be fine.

Jeff

[ghnat]

rdane - we rode about the same miles last year. Sorry 'bout the incident. I have had my share of recovery so I know some of your pain...

MOMO - sorry to hear we cyclists are a drain on your fun out there. To be honest when I am up in the Gaps in N Ga the biggest issue here is with the motorcycles. Most cars that are in the gaps are cool with us slow-pokes. I can usually pass most things on the steep descents with my bike though, but I digress. I have been "buzzed" by more motorcycles than anything else. I cannot speak for the left coast. I try to keep as far right as possible on the tight turns while climbing and listen for anything approaching.

Summer Months I usually start early - 7-8am so the heat does not kill me. How is 4pm and later in your area? Most folks here are off the mountains by then in my neck of the woods. Maybe adjusting your schedule would help???

[MOMO3.2]

My mistake Danny. I extend my sincere apology. I was recalling this post you made in a thread a while back. I must have read more into it than you intended...

Quote by Danny_Ocean:

"Q: What's the difference between a Hoover and a Harley?
A: The location of the dirt-bag.

I love pulling up alongside 'em at a light, when driving my Stingray (chambered sidepipes...no muffs). They'll give their "hey look at me" rev and then I'll bury my tach in neutral. That get's their attention.

Dipwad, wanna-be, poseur "bikers"...I'm not impressed."



No harm here.

Mike

[MOMO3.2]

oldskhool:

Nate DOES get the 911!

[MOMO3.2]

Greg:

N.Georgia is gorgeous. My wife and I really liked Dahlonega (sp?).

In an attempt to clarify this, I am talking about VERY tight (2nd gear only) sections of mountain road that are waaay too dangerous for cyclists to be sharing with ANY cars.

Mike

[dd74]

While cycling, I've been hit five times - once intentionally; and once shot in the back. I was even chased by a semi a la "Terminator 2" style near the 405 Freeway.

None of those incidents took place on mountain roads, but rather on Westside L.A. streets.

IMO, population is much more dangerous than the lone spiritedly-driven 911 or any other car.