F*ckin' tax collectors masquerading as cops

[K9Torro]

Originally posted by on-ramp
we live to pay taxes. everything we do is taxed. HA HA

Hey Ramp

I totally agree, in less than a week I have to pay the IRS 70K in taxes for the 2006 tax year, hate it but then again I made the money so I have to give them their share.

Also where I live we have to pay personal property taxes every year on our vehicles to get our tag's, they like to see me coming.

Todd

[tobster1911]

If it is not about revenue but truly about safety, then answer this.

Why when I got my last speeding ticket and when to court, did the DA offer me a plea bargain that dropped the points against my license but did nothing to the fine?

IF the true reason is safety don't you think it would be reasonable to "give a break" to someone based on the $$$ not on the measure of their driving (points). Not once in the 2hr that I was there did I see them drop the $$$ amount. They were dropping the points to 1pt defective vehicle like they were doing you a favor.

(read this action as "We are going to screw you over, but we will help you not get screwed by the insurance co as much")

Yeah, safety....

[Jims5543]

I have said it before and I'll say it again. There is 110 miles of interstate 95 through Georgia. I was nabbed once, there were about 15-18 State Troopers under a bridge with one hiding in the bushes with a laser gun.

I had moved from the center lane to the left lane to pass, I noticed an SUV moving quickly towards me from behind, I sped up from 80 to 89 to make my pass and move back over. (I call it courtesy) I was out in the cold looking at a laser gun pointing at me. I knew I was busted, I pulled over BEHIND the Trooper about to come after me, that kind of threw him off. Try to drive I-95 at less than 80 MPH and you become a rolling chicane.

That was the last $140 I have ever spent in Georgia, I still travel through there on your interstate but I never stop for gas, food or lodging. I make this trip 10 times or more a year and Georgia has lost out on a LOT of revenue from me.

But they got their $140 and that will be the only way they will ever get money from me.

[berettafan]

I do agree on the issue of having the fuzz travel around vs. laying in wait. It would do much more to deter agressive driving (the bigger problem i think).

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally posted by K9Torro
WHAT IS REASONABLE IS UP TO THE INDIVIDUAL , THE LAW IS THE LAW. SAYING THAT BREAKING ONE LAW IS OK AND NOT BREAKING ANOTHER LEAVES WAY TOO MUCH ROOM TO WONDER WHAT LAWS SHOULD BE ENFORCED ON THE PART OF THE OFFICERS INVOLVED, IT IS JUST EASIER TO ENFORCE THEM ALL THE SAME WAY.

I agree, Todd. That is not what I'm getting at; I would expect cops to enforce the law uniformly, as written.

My problem is with the law, not the cops enforcing it. I feel they are being miss-used. I feel the tables have turned, at least on the point of traffic enforcement, from a condition in which the laws serve the citizenry to a condition under which the citizenry serves the law. That's bass-ackwards here in America. It should not be that way.

Originally posted by K9Torro
THIS SHOWS HOW LITTLE YOU KNOW ABOUT EUROPEAN TRAFFIC ENFORCEMENT, IN MOST EU COUNTRIES THE FINE IS BASED ON A PERCENTAGE OF YOUR YEARLY INCOME, TRY THAT ON FOR SIZE WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT A REVENUE BASED APPROACH.

TODD

I have actually driven in Europe (Germany, specifically) quite a lot. My mother is German, and I spend some time over there with my aunts, uncles, and cousins. I'm aware of some of their heavy fines, and I would welcome them here.

The difference is that their heavy fines are levied against those that actually do something bad enough to endanger others. Speeding on a lonely country road won't even draw a second glance from their police. Driving in a pack, (at the same speed as the rest) will never draw their attention, no matter how far over the limit that pack is going. They would certainly never pick one lucky winner out of that pack and cite him. Hanging out in the left lane, passing on the right, weaving in and out of lanes, etc. will draw their ire on the Autobahn. Steadily holding your lane, while obviously speeding (in the areas with limits) won't draw a second glance.

It is far different over there. Pettiness is not a factor. And to be clear - I do not blame our "pettiness" on the officers. I blame the jurisdictions deploying them in this manner. as an aside, I don't know many cops that like speed traps any better than I do, much less pulling duty on one. We (our society) need to change our traffic laws. Changes in enforcement will innevitably follow. Wasting our officers' valuable time writing the soccer moms for ten over has to stop. It ain't getting us anywhere.

Originally posted by K9Torro
Opp's sorry about the cap's did not even notice till too late.

Stop yelling at me. You sound like a cop. (Sorry; couldn't resist...)

[Superman]

Originally posted by Joeaksa
Please show me one time where someone was not speeding and received a ticket. One showing a speed lower than the limit and ticketed.

My grandfather got one. We're from the boondocks, and he was visiting California. On the freeway, he was busted doing 1 mph UNDER the speed limit. The ticket was for impeding traffic.

America is a land of rule-breakers. It is admirable to win a contest, and if you played a little fast and loose with the rules, you get extra credit. Throughout Western Washington, the freeway speed limit is 60 mph. Average speed is probably 67.

I've even heard that car guys sometimes tune and configure their vehicles so that they normally wouldn't pass emissions tests, and they temporarily reconfigure those vehicles each two years in order to pass the test. Hard to believe, I know. But I've heard of people actually doing this.

I've heard of people using the right hand lane to move past traffic which always seems to be balled up on the left.

I've even heard of people setting up businesses for the purpose of deducting expenses on their tax returns. It's all part of the rather competitive lifestyle we have here in the United States. Except for Texas, I guess.

[Moses]

Originally posted by berettafan
IMO the thought process used by Moses is not very different from that of a gang rapist or the looters in N.O. "Everybody else is doing it and i will benefit personally by doing it as well.....so i will do it!".

If your argument were not so absurd and your intellect so vacuous I'd likely find offense...

So Rosa Parks should have surrendered her seat because "it's the law?" Ridiculous. This nations greatest strength is the citizens who question and challenge the law. The battle against tyranny is fought every day when a driver refuses illegal search and seizure, refuses to comply with an illegal DUI checkpoint or challenges an arbitrarily written traffic ticket.

It has become apparent that traffic enforcement has precious little to do with public safety. This is a direct abrogation of the public trust and a minor form of financial tyranny. I applaud those who have the time and courage to fight state sponsored harassment wherever they find it.

"Don't speed and you won't get a ticket" is the moral equivalent of "Take your seat in the back of the bus and there won't be any trouble."

[Superman]

I almost never disagree with Moses. From my perspective, that suggests Moses is intelligent and perceptive.

And notwithstanding Joe's righteous indignation, I wonder what might pass through his mind and heart if he were motoring along safely in the center of a pack of vehicles at 63 mph, and was being passed by a car going 80 mph, and a policeman culls him out of that herd and issues him a citation for going 3 over. Joe, pretending you would not be the slightest bit perturbed will probably not play well with this audience.

[berettafan]

Originally posted by Moses

"Don't speed and you won't get a ticket" is the moral equivalent of "Take your seat in the back of the bus and there won't be any trouble."

Yup, ever since the dawn of humanity there have been two major issues plaguing society; Abusive treatment of entire races and speed limits set too low.

Define 'moral' moses. Show me how 'moral' fits with breaking a law that singles out noone but those who CHOOSE to break it and uniformly applies to all (dirty cops notwithstanding). Show me how moral it is to cause a police force to station additional cops (regardless of motivation) on traffic duty vs. drug duty or alien duty or cruising neighborhoods looking for thugs casing houses duty.

Has anyone thought about the fact that the faster you travel the less time you have to react and the more space you need to do it? Couple that with the fact that not everyone you are sharing the highway with has years of experience. Some of those folks you are doing 70mph with are 16 yrs old.

We can all agree that speed differential kills. Well there is one surefire way to reduce the gap. Slow down. Don't exceed the limit.

The only excuse i see offered up is 'the other guys are doing it and i need to keep up so as not to cause a traffic jam'.

[Aerkuld]

I agree with you guys. I never saw the need for a radar detector until last year. I got ticketed driving between Charlotte and Augusta at 6am in very light traffic on a clear morning for a claimed 89mph in a 70 zone. While I do not deny that I was exceeding 70 I wasn't driving in a manner that I would consider dangerous. Admittedly it was dark, but there is no way on earth I was going that fast, but then I have no idea where the cop was when he clocked me, so I couldn't answer the "How fast were you going back there?" question.
Following that I got a radar detector and have made that jorney several times since. Now I know that the cops sit in the center median at 6 in the morning in the dark with no lights on.
To me, catching people driving dangerously or exceeding the speed of the surrounding traffic, or even blatantly exceeding the speed limit is one thing, but sitting there waiting to catch commuters when the road is fairly quiet justifys me using a detector.

[K9Torro]

"Don't speed and you won't get a ticket" is the moral equivalent of "Take your seat in the back of the bus and there won't be any trouble." [/B][/QUOTE]

Uhhhh I have to disagree with this particular part of the post,

If you break the content of the sentence down Speeding is as we poor, ignorant, red neck, inbred, no limbs on our family tree , savages say is agian the law, so if you speed you are brakin the law, however there are no laws regarding bus seating, not even seat belt ones so I fail to see the point of your comparison.

But if it makes you happy to compare seating arrangements on mass transit to speeding I guess that is alright.

Todd

P.s... don't u just luv these topics, I know I do.

[berettafan]

Originally posted by Moses
This nations greatest strength is the citizens who question and challenge the law.


***One doesn't need to break a law to challenge and question it***


The battle against tyranny is fought every day when a driver refuses illegal search and seizure, refuses to comply with an illegal DUI checkpoint

***Writing a citation for exceeding the speed limit is not an illegal act***


or challenges an arbitrarily written traffic ticket.

***Again, if the officer is actually lying then go to court and say so. I have done just that. Actually got a chuckle but i was very clear about why i knew the cop was lying. My radar detector was on and did NOT go off and this was in an area where the cops keep the detectors on 24/7 even when driving. not a point & shoot deal. I knew, in that area, when a cop was withing 1/4 mile of me even if i couldn't see him. But i fail to see what this has to do with sucking it up and paying the fine when you actually break the law and exceed the limit.*****

[K9Torro]

Hey Jim

Next time you are motoring South on 95 give me a wave if I am in the median at the 5 mile marker or just stop on by and we can have a coffee. (Just look for the car with the Porsche crest on the back window) otherwise our car's all look pretty much alike haha.

Jeff

I drive quite a bit in the EU every year, own property there in three different locations (two different countries) will be living there part year in the near future if things work out right, anyhow bottom line on law enforcement in the EU is that not just traffic but everything is handled differently there, having said that the day's of high limit speed is nearly at an end, both the Autobahn and the Autostrada have very little areas of high speed zones now, and yes driving in the right lane except to pass will draw the attention of the local Polizei , Gendarmerie or Carabinieri and what have you.

Todd

PS... Torro is German he was born right outside Frankfurt am Main, he has two brothers and one sister that are Polizei, and one brother that is Politie (Netherlands).

[Rondinone]

Originally posted by on-ramp
Riiiiight.... If you're not speeding, they will not pull you over.

They won't pull you without a reason. In 18 years of driving, I have NEVER had a speeding ticket. Guess why.

[Rondinone]

Originally posted by Joeaksa
If you are speeding and given a ticket, its not a "revenue tactic," its the law, you have broken it and deserve to pay. Stop trying to twist the words around. You speed, you get caught and you deserve to pay. No wiggling, pay your fine!

When anyone is speeding and caught, why yes I do suggest that the person pay the ticket. Funny how telling the truth and not trying to squirm out of it will usually make you feel better.

We just had Easter and watched the Ten Commandments. Remember those? Kinda the rules that we are supposed to live our lives by?

One of them says "Thou shalt not lie"... If you were speeding and you try to wiggle out of paying the ticket, is this not a lie? What kind of example does this show to your family and friends? What kind of man are you?

Someday you libs might try living your lifes and incorporating the Ten Commandments into the mix.

Welcome to the world of "relativism". There are no cosmic truths, only feelings!

[Rondinone]

Originally posted by Moses
Our presumption is that speed limits are established and enforced as a tool to facilitate public safety. Increasingly, there has been a huge disconnect between ticketing "speeders" and preserving public safety. In many cases, no rational safety based argument can be made for most speeding tickets. The motivation for the aggressive enforcement of speed laws is clearly economic.

So now lets talk about "the big lie." When an officer writes a ticket for an offense that is clearly not jeopardizing public safety, he has violated the public trust. He is no longer serving the public, he is collecting revenue. So is it reasonable to fight a ticket when you know you are "guilty"? If the officer has violated the public trust in writing the ticket, I see no moral imperative to roll over and pay a fine without a fight.

When I drive the speed limit, I find that other people slow down. They probably appreciate the relief from peer pressure to which you so easily succumb.

IMO laws are laws, and the guy speeding is the public hazard.

[Jeff Higgins]

We usually fly into Frankfurt, Todd. My mom is from Warburg, just outside of Kassel. It's a couple of hours on the Autobahn from Frankfurt. It's too bad that, like you say, the no limit sections seem to be reduced every year. Even most areas with no limit have a defacto one due to the traffic.

And yes, everything is different there. Taken as a whole, our silly emphasis on speed enforcement is just such a small drop in the the bucket. I think most Americans would go nuts living under the whole of the German law. Ours lives are virtually unregulated in comparison.

European countries have had a great deal more time to tighten the noose around their peoples' necks. Our Bill of Rights was written with their laws, in addition to British law, in mind. No one wanted to see a government ruling over its people as subjects; they wanted to see citizens ruling over their government.

Modern-day U.S. speed law, and the latest methods of enforcement, cross that line. It serves no demonstratable purpose other than to pad the coffers. We can all see that. That knowledge makes it very frustrating to be "caught" while doing no harm to anyone whatsoever and fined. Citizens feel as though they have lost all say in this particular arena.

[Moses]

Originally posted by K9Torro
"Don't speed and you won't get a ticket" is the moral equivalent of "Take your seat in the back of the bus and there won't be any trouble."

But if it makes you happy to compare seating arrangements on mass transit to speeding I guess that is alright.

They are not moral equivalents. Certainly the gravity of a civil rights struggle eclipses ones fight against an unjust traffic citation. They are similar in that they both represent acts of civil disobedience, an important tool Americans have used to forge our freedoms.

A prior post compared exceeding the speed limit to rape and looting. Absurd.

[stomachmonkey]

Originally posted by K9Torro
"Don't speed and you won't get a ticket" is the moral equivalent of "Take your seat in the back of the bus and there won't be any trouble."

however there are no laws regarding bus seating, not even seat belt ones so I fail to see the point of your comparison.

You missed the point. There USED to be laws regarding bus seating until a tired cleaning woman decided it was a bunch of BS and said FU, I sit where I want. Moses was supporting the idea that this is our country and we as citizens have a say in what laws have outlived their time and need to change.

Please don't tell me that you have never heard of the Civil Rights movement and Rosa Parks's role.

[rhjames]

good sized article in Houston (Texas) Chronicle newspaper this past weekend about speed traps in Texas. lists the major ones, some well known, some not so well known.

highlight:

Estelene, Texas (about halfway between Ft. Worth and Amarilllo, on US HWY 287)

population 168

cops: 1 (actually named Barney--no not Fife)

cop salary: $50,000 per year (holy *****!!!)

cop car: a brand spankin' new Dodge Charger "Cop Edition"

cop work week: 6 days, off one

revenue: 50% city revenue based on speeding tickets


safety? town leaders say so, but why would anyone in their right mind walk out into 55-70MPH traffic?


it's the money stupid.......



And by the way Rondinone, I just got out of traffic court this AM, having a speeding ticket dismissed. Yes, I was doing the limit, but because I happened to just be "there", I was an easy target (Houston PD truck enforcement cop, enforcing revenue collection on a truck driver).

Bottom line: HPD didn't even bother to show up. 70 bucks to my attorney, and no conviction, no fine, no points on my pristine driving record of 27 years and over 3 million "safe driving" miles.


Again, it's the money, stupid....

Safety hasn't got a damn thing to do with it.

regards---rhjames