Time for a new roof... need advice

[notfarnow]

My roof is past its best-before date. It's 18-19 years old & asphalt shingles.

The worst areas are above the sunporch, and the back part of the house; the pitch is only 2/12. Furthermore, the soffits weren't vented until last year, so that didn't help.

We have had a couple leaks, and I've been up to patch & seal them, but the roof is just beat... plain and simple.

I was originally going to just pay someone to do this, but I have several friends who have done roofs. A couple of them were over this weekend and they pretty much convinced me to get a 6-8 man workcrew together and DIY. The $$ saved could be put into much higher quality materials, and I'd still have enough left over to build a new deck this summer.

Now, I have never done a roof before, but I am pretty handy. The two frends who were advising me have each done 4-5 roofs. One of them has led 3 similar DIY projects on family & friends' homes, and he has offered to help me out. There is no way I'd tackle this without his help; he is not just a DIY'er but has worked full time as a contractor and has built homes. He is also very fussy & thorough, and works very very carefully. I have helped him out a few times and he really wants to help me tackle this.


Question:
Originally, I was going to put down asphalt shingles. However, my friend told me that with the low pitches, many more people are using peel & stick roofing. He said that a few years ago it was an "unknown", but it's pretty much proven now. Some of the peel & stick products are guaranteed for 20 years, which is more than you can get for any shingle installed on a low pitch.

I'm thinking about using it on the areas marked with yellow:


Anyone have any exprience using the peel & stick stuff?

More generally, anyone ever done their own roof before? What should I expect? What kind of precautions should I take? Any tips?

[kach22i]

As old as your roof is, it might not have any "Ice & Water Shield", which is a peel and stick underlayment. Designed to be used continuous on roofs below 3/12 pitch as an underlayment, and along all roof edges, eaves, valleys and the like (24" horizontal from the inside of the wall is code here in Michigan).

This underlayment is also granulated and I've seen some people try to use it as an exposed roofing, but do not recommend this as I have not tried to get away with this myself.

A true "flat roof" roofing would be better with such a low pitch, follow the directions and recommendations of what ever you select. Shingles on such low pitches tend to curl up, much the same way they do on totally vertical surfaces.

My first thought when I saw your roof was to go metal, but metal is not something you want to do yourself.

Above all:
Follow the manufactures instructions and directions.

[Dan in Pasadena]

Jake, I'm on the other side of the world from you...almost literally in terms of weather. New Brunswick Canada and Southern California! But I have a large (15-30) shed addition to my garage that has a pitch at least as low as on that porch, if not lower. It leaked like a sieve and I had a guy do it with the hot melt roofing - is that what you mean by "peel & stick"? The stuff I am talking about sorta looks like normal compostine shingles in appearance (the little gravel on the surface) but it is a rolled product with black cr@p on the back that melts onto the roofing surface with a roofer's propane torch (uses a 5lb propane tank and a long handled torch). As you roll it out, you use the torch to melt the black stuff and lay it while hot and plastic and it sticks like crazy when applied to the roofing surface. Of course make sure your sheathing is sound and un-rotted. Mine is tight as a drum. Best of luck.

[notfarnow]

Kach22i: Good instinct... our roof doesn't have ice & water shield, and that's definately part of the problem. My original plan was to put it over the entire "low pitch" area, then use a good quality asphalt shingle.

However, the peel & stick roofing I'm talking about is designed to be used standalone.

Bakor & GAF are the ones I've heard about the most.
http://www.can-save.ca/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=235&Itemid=202

http://www.gaf.com/Content/GAF/RES1/ROOF/RS_Liberty.html

Polyglass & Flintlastic also sell the same type of roofing.

And as for metal, it is an option I am considering for the steep pitch areas. They are the only parts you can actually see from street level, and I think a steel roof would look great there.

[notfarnow]

Originally posted by Dan in Pasadena
I have a large (15-30) shed addition to my garage that has a pitch at least as low as on that porch, if not lower. It leaked like a sieve and I had a guy do it with the hot melt roofing - is that what you mean by "peel & stick"?

No, but that's something else I have considered; but not for a DIY application. I would be terrified of using a roofer's torch on my old house

Originally posted by Dan in Pasadena
Of course make sure your sheathing is sound and un-rotted. Mine is tight as a drum.

Because the soffits weren't vented for 15+ years, I'm assuming I'll have rotten boards to replace. From the attic, you can see spots that had been wet for a very, very long time... especially above the bathroom. I'm planning on putting down A LOT of plywood.

[Dan in Pasadena]

Jake, I was going to do it myself and initally had the same fear. But after watching these guys do it? No prob. You never apply the low, low level flame to your roof. You sprta pass it over the black stuff waiving the torch but never staying in one place. I know its hard to describe but it is a lot less hazardous than it sounds initially. Of course I had the garden hose with a spray head on and hooked on the edge of the roof and they never came remotely close to hurting anything. Nice thing about that roofing? Once its bonded on? NOTHING can get between it and the wood. Not water, not rats (more an issue here because of temperate climate?), nothing.

[notfarnow]

Originally posted by Dan in Pasadena
Jake, I was going to do it myself and initally had the same fear. But after watching these guys do it? No prob.

Great! When are you available?

In all seriousness, a couple months ago they repaired the roof at work using this stuff. I went out and watched on my lunch and it didn't seem too complex, but still makes me nervous to think about it as a DIY.

Maybe I shouldn't dismiss it?

Just the same, the peel & stick stuff looks very simple, and a 20 yr guarantee is better than I can get on asphalt shingles

[kach22i]

http://www.roddroofing.com/gallery.htm


Metal roof looks good on high pitched roofs, but works even better on low pitched roofs (compared to other materials).

I went with an architectural grade asphalt shingle on my own home (simple 10/12 pitch). It was just a couple of hundred bucks more in material than the bottom of the line stuff.

[notfarnow]

A guy down the road DIY'd his steel roof. Measured the exact size and had the panels cut. You don't often think "hey, nice roof", but his is beautiful. I would consider a metal roof on the front slope and above the sunporch.

I wouldn't do metal on the back part of the roof... it's too expensive to justify on an area that you can't see from any angle. Plus, it's so slippery, and I have to be up there a few times a year.

[Mr_Wizard]

Originally posted by kach22i
http://www.roddroofing.com/gallery.htm


Metal roof looks good on high pitched roofs, but works even better on low pitched roofs (compared to other materials).

I went with an architectural grade asphalt shingle on my own home (simple 10/12 pitch). It was just a couple of hundred bucks more in material than the bottom of the line stuff.

+1 I am doing metal on mine within the next couple of years. Plus I will not have to climb up there any more after hurricanes (Unless my whole roof blows off )

[notfarnow]

Bill, you going to DIY or hire it out?

[Mr_Wizard]

Originally posted by notfarnow
Bill, you going to DIY or hire it out?

Hire it out. Friend of mine owns a roofing company here and will be getting me materials at cost.

[notfarnow]

So I've been pricing things out and weighing my options.

A steel roof is out of the question; it'd cost me 4-5 times the cost of regular shingles or some of the other options. I could swing it financially, but would get way more bang for the buck if I spent that $$ on other improvements we've been holding off.

I've essentially got two options I'm considering now for the "low slope" parts of the roof (marked in yellow above)

OPTION 1) Ice & water shield the whole way up, with really good quality (35yr) asphalt shingles. Because of the low slope, no warrantee would cover the shingles, but I'd have 2 layers and I'd feel pretty safe. My neighbor did his this way and is very happy with it.

OPTION 2) Bakor LowSlope "peel & stick" 2 ply roofing
http://www.can-save.ca/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=235&Itemid=202
This stuff looks promising, and is guaranteed for 20 years. It would only cost 20% more than the ice & water shiled + shingles. It would also be WAY less labor to install. My only concern is that it's a relatively new product.

Any thoughts?

[competentone]

I use Peel & Seal in many repair applications, some fairly large areas. I've done a few small low-pitch roofs with it too.

Their website is really poor:

http://www.mfmbp.com/ccp51/cgi-bin/cp-app.cgi?usr=51G483613&rnd=6791991&rrc=N&affl=&cip=&act=&aff=&pg=prod&ref=PSalum&cat=RMs&catstr=HOME:RMs

Their installation instruction and data sheet tell you a little more:
http://www.mfmbp.com/install.htm
http://www.mfmbp.com/spec.htm

Using it -- as is the case with many peel and stick products -- isn't quite as simple as peeling off the backing and slapping it down. To get good results requires proper surface preparation and careful installation techniques.

I'm trying to remember the oldest jobs that I've used it on -- I'm thinking some of my uses of it go back about 10 years. It is still holding up very well in those locations.

The only problem I recall with it involved the "white" finished material; the white top layer peeled off after a few years at one location (fortunately it wasn't visible). I suspect it was a problem specific to that particular roll/lot. I stick to using the plain aluminum in most applications since a colored face usually isn't needed.

[john70t]

Also make sure there's a good layer of insulation on the attic floor with a vapor barrier underneath, and if it's blown-in the edges should have the zig-zag type panels(forgot name) on the edges so the air can circulate to the soffits.

I also like the idea of a good layer of spray foam insulation on the second+ floor for insulation.

[porsche930dude]

im not sure if you can use ice & water over the old shingles. Are your tearing it off or going over. if its only one layer youd be fine going over. We dont go over anything 2 or more layers thick. Tearing off is usually the hardest part of doing a roof so if you can avoid that your much better off. And if you get the same size and style shingles you can do what we call "butt and run" very little measuring or thinking at all because you just nest all the new shingles up to the old ones and that is by far the easyest. Obviously you cant do that if youve got ice and water on there

[notfarnow]

Wow, thanks! Some great tips.

Because the roof is ~18 yrs old, and has had a few leaks, I'm going to pull everything off for sure. I expect to at least replace some boards; but if it's bad enough I've budgeted to lay new plywood over the whole roof.

As for insulation, the house is well insulated for a ~140 year old place. The soffits were not vented until this past fall. I'm sure that contributed to the roof's deterioration. When I was up in the attic above the bathroom, I could actually see condensation on the shingles' nails. I also noted some soft boards. I rented scaffolding and opened them up, put in the "rafter buddies" or whatever they're called. Venting the soffits eliminated the condensation issue, but I think a ridge vent would help too.

I'll post some more pics tonight, maybe seeing the actual roofing would be helpful

[notfarnow]

Originally posted by competentone
I use Peel & Seal in many repair applications, some fairly large areas. I've done a few small low-pitch roofs with it too.

Their website is really poor:

http://www.mfmbp.com/ccp51/cgi-bin/cp-app.cgi?usr=51G483613&rnd=6791991&rrc=N&affl=&cip=&act=&aff=&pg=prod&ref=PSalum&cat=RMs&catstr=HOME:RMs

Their installation instruction and data sheet tell you a little more:
http://www.mfmbp.com/install.htm
http://www.mfmbp.com/spec.htm

Just had a look...

It's about half the price of the Bakor LowSlope 2 ply, but:

Surface Preparation: The surface to receive Peel & Seal must be clean, smooth, dry and free from oil, grease, solvents or debris. Before applying Peel & Seal over caulks, sealants or petroleum-based materials, allow any solvents to evaporate fully. Always prime plywood, OSB, composition board, masonry and other surfaces to obtain a smooth, clean surface. (Figure 2) A fiberglass base sheet may be nailed or mopped in place as necessary, but will require priming. Never install over tongue & groove or plank decks or organic base sheet.

Looks like I'd only be able to use it if I had a plywood deck. Mine is rough board. The Bakor 2 ply can be used on boards

[porsche930dude]

definatly put in ridge vent when you do it. Venting just the soffit does only half the work. You need that flow through. Whatever heat builds up in there rises out the ridge and pulls fresh air in through the soffit