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Dean at M.I.T. Resigns, Ending a 28-Year Lie

Dean at M.I.T. Resigns, Ending a 28-Year Lie
http://carnuts.us/viewtopic.php?p=8340#8340

Sounds like she did an outstanding job and was much admired in her field. There is something deeply wrong with an institution that cannot recognize that, and focuses instead on her "lack of credentials". I would say her record of exemplary service over the last 30 years are indeed her "credentials". She lied, yes. She should appoligize and make ammends. Destroying what is left of the career of a seemingly caring, bright, innovate leader in her field is just wrong. Is this what we have come to? The credentials are more important than what she accomplished without them?

To some, the paper in the hand is more important than the hand carrying it. If she did lie, she should be punished in some way though.

If she fabricated credentials to get the position, you would do nothing about that? What message does that send to the students?

On her resume, Massachusetts Institute of Technology officials said yesterday, Jones said she had degrees from Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Union College, and Albany Medical College, all in New York State. She does not have a degree from any of them.

Rensselaer said yesterday that Jones was a part-time student in a nondegree program from September 1974 to June 1975. Albany Medical and Union said they had no records that she had ever attended.

http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2007/04/27/mit_dean_quits_over_fabricated_credentials/

Quote:

Originally posted by Jeff Higgins
Sounds like she did an outstanding job and was much admired in her field. There is something deeply wrong with an institution that cannot recognize that, and focuses instead on her "lack of credentials". I would say her record of exemplary service over the last 30 years are indeed her "credentials". She lied, yes. She should appoligize and make ammends. Destroying what is left of the career of a seemingly caring, bright, innovate leader in her field is just wrong. Is this what we have come to? The credentials are more important than what she accomplished without them?

While I agree that at some point, the job you do is much more important than credentials, she basically made up her own credentials to get a job as the sales manager at a credentials store. That kinda de-values the product they're selling, and is extremely unethical.

There are scores of college drop-outs that do better than the graduates. Some think it's because they have something to prove to themselves and to others, like they are not failures afterall.

From what I've read she is one of those people.

I went to a community college....

Wayne, you crack me up...

I'm pretty sure you are a MIT graduate right?

Your quote:

"I don't care if she's done a great job - it sends a very poor message if there is no action taken."

Well the message has already been sent- It turns out that very often a college degree has nothing to do with a persons ability to do a job.

Personally I think the whole notion of having to spend $100K to get a degree a totally antiquated concept. Any person, motivated, with a $20 per month Internet connection and a $600 laptop can learn anything on their own, often much better than being taught by a professor with tenure who hasn't been in the real world work force for 20+ years.

I graduated with a BS mechanical engineering school from a *****ty state school. I went on to teach myself programming, circuit design, and ultimately RF engineering and modulation theory. I founded a RF modem company, and still to this day have a design that is price competitive even though is was designed 8 years ago...

I think people who are saving now to send their six year old to college twelve years from now just don't get the modern world.

By that time, for about $300 you will be able to buy an interactive DVD: Four year BS degree in a box.

Spending time teaching your kids how to learn, the joys of deferred gratification, creativity and motivation is FAR MORE IMPORTANT than spending time at work putting money in their $300K college fund thinking you're doing a great job as a parent...

Quote:

Originally posted by ewave
Wayne, you crack me up...

I'm pretty sure you are a MIT graduate right?

Been here long?

Of course he is, and he's the boss here too.

And I think she let him in the school, small world.:D

The message is integrity. And she didn't have it. Each time she progressed through the ranks she had an opportunity to make right her fabrication. Each time she sent someone her resume, she had a chance to make it right. And she never did.

You want performance sans ethics? I don't. This story isn't about whether you need a college degree to do well...we know that is not the case. It is about something bigger.

Quote:

Originally posted by nostatic
You want performance sans ethics...

Never.

Oddly, I bet she feels relieved that the lie is over.

Quote:

Originally posted by ewave
By that time, for about $300 you will be able to buy an interactive DVD: Four year BS degree in a box.

I'm waiting for the pills. It's far easier to take a degree course orally.

Quote:

Originally posted by nostatic
You want performance sans ethics?

Hmm... seems like a 180 degree shift from the stance on Bubba.

She lied - plain and simple and should be held accountable.

Reference Holloway's Axioms of Human Condition which I think you all should know by now (Afterall, I am a know-it-all remember!).
In case anyone forget them:
1) People for the most part do not change. Do not expect it because it most likely will not happen.
2) People are most often motivated by self-interests, which also may act as defense mechanism. They may not be well understood by any outsider but the individual has structured them into a personality maze that often they are captive.
3) People rarely take advice rather they formulated rationalizations and rebuttals to cement Axioms #1 and/or #2.
4) Character flaws and "quarks of manner" transcend - just because someone is crazy, dishonest, or disingenuous in one aspect of their life, do not make the mistake it does not carry over into other aspects - it does.
5) For the majority of comfortable people, food, sleep/escape, sex and warmth are still the most important things in life – behind admiration and acknowledgement. This will be the driving force behind all Axioms.

Quote:

Originally posted by LubeMaster77
5) For the majority of comfortable people, food, sleep/escape, sex and warmth are still the most important things in life – behind admiration and acknowledgement. This will be the driving force behind all Axioms.

food, sleep/escape, sex and warmth - mmmmmmm :cool:

Quote:

Originally posted by Jeff Higgins
Hmm... seems like a 180 degree shift from the stance on Bubba.

Nope. In fact, I've argued that it was sexual harassment as given the nature of the working relationship, there is no such thing as "consensual sex." It was a bonehead move and he should have been punished.

Quote:

Originally posted by red-beard
I'm waiting for the pills. It's far easier to take a degree course orally.

we're working on an early alpha version, but it currently is suppository only. And rather hefty.

nothing some good lube can't take care of...

So what is a Degree from MIT worth these days, if the Dean of Admissions was dishonest? That does make every MIT Grad under her tenure suspicious?

Quote:

Originally posted by tabs
So what is a Degree from MIT worth these days, if the Dean of Admissions was dishonest? That does make every MIT Grad under her tenure suspicious?

Yeah- To maintain integrity of an MIT degree, they should revoke all of the degrees granted to students while Jones was Dean.

Maybe she got some kickbacks from rich Daddies? She prolly also got some candy from the student loan folks as well? Heck, why stop there, she may have even been in cahoots with some folks in records - changing grades and credits?

Refer to Axiom #4.

There is no telling the depth and width of this woman. She could single-handedly bring down what is arguably the finest technical institution in the world (behind the Air Force Academy that is).

An MIT degree is worth today whatever it was worth last week, or twenty years ago.

You still need to complete the curriculum to get the degree, whatever the "credential" of the person minding the entrance.

Before I went to Webb, I looked seriously at MIT, and it was not exactly "curving" grades or diluting curricula to accommodate folks who had no business being there, intellectual-horsepower-wise .

Frankly, I was more shocked (shocked!) to find out (via Paul Harvey) that the guy who was Crayola's color-checker for 40+ years announced upon his retirement that he was color blind.

Not that he fabricated a degree in color-seeingness or anything...

JP

Whoa..guess I won't be buying anymore Crayolas anytime soon....guess I will have to use something less to write my letters to Politicians and Newspapers with.

Quote:

Originally posted by LubeMaster77
what is arguably the finest technical institution in the world (behind the Air Force Academy that is).

both behind Caltech, but I digress... :p

Quote:

Originally posted by tabs
Whoa..guess I won't be buying anymore Crayolas anytime soon....guess I will have to use something less to write my letters to Politicians and Newspapers with.

pricking your finger and writing in blood is always a good choice. Makes it more personal and shows that you really care...

Quote:

Originally posted by nostatic
pricking your finger and writing in blood is always a good choice. Makes it more personal and shows that you really care...

Naw I tried that, thought it would be more attention getting, they just think your a nut case...especially when U start calling them everyday to see when they will respond to your missive. However the Crqayons make them think that your just an average American..and if your mad enough to get out your Crayolas to actually write a letter..well then there must be more average Americans out there as well who share the same sentiment.

I also found using bad Grammer and poor spelling is also requist to be paid attention to, in that if you use proper English they think your someone intelligent trying to get listened to. Then they really ignore U.

Putting a face to the story....................

http://alumweb.mit.edu/clubs/newyork/BrowseWeb.do;jsessionid=E62AA100ED3D8325B691202A67 0F9803?webSiteId=SI000621&webPageId=P007&photoId=0
http://alumweb.mit.edu/upload/NY/IMG_5222_12454.JPG
Ken Wang and Marilee Jones, Dean of Admissions at MIT

http://www.winsor.edu/pages/sitepage.cfm?page=76213
http://www.winsor.edu/pages/sitepage.cfm?page=42965
http://files.schoolyard.com/winsor/c...eNight_025.jpg

Quote:

We are creating human doings these days, not human beings," cautioned Marilee Jones, dean of admission at MIT, in her talk to senior parents at this year’s Class VIII College Night at Winsor. More than 50 parents attended the evening, held September 19, 2006, and organized again by Winsor’s director of college counseling Jennifer Graham.

Dean Jones speaks around the country on the topic of how stress is making students as young as elementary school age physically ill and the demands of the college admission process are contributing in large part to the problem. In her Winsor presentation, she discussed how the pressure to compete and participate in a large number of adult-organized activities leaves little time for students to explore their own creative interests and thus develop a strong sense of self.

Dean Jones spoke frequently about her own experience with her daughter’s college process last year and admitted to making many of the same mistakes she now cautions parents against.

Her message, liberally infused with humor, is that parents need to help their daughters “lower the flame” and make decisions that are appropriate for them. This may mean stopping an activity that no longer gives them pleasure, removing technology from their bedrooms to ensure that there is a quiet, safe retreat for sleep and listening to what a student really wants rather than what the parent feels is necessary for admission to certain colleges.

For more on the subject, parents can check out Dean Jones’ new book, co-written with a pediatrician who specializes in adolescent development. Titled Less Stress, More Success, the book was published earlier this year by the American Academy of Pediatrics.

You can also read more of her thoughts on the MIT Web site: http://www.mitadmissions.org/Marilee.shtml.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2006-10-08-stress-book_x.htm
http://images.usatoday.com/news/_pho.../jones-mug.jpg

Quote:

Q: Why the extra focus on college admissions?

Jones: It can be a big driver. Many of us in college admissions have set standards that are so high, and we've been sending the message that kids need to be perfect. We get rewarded by U.S. News rankings for admitting those kids, and as a result we're caught up in it. The other piece is that we have a tendency to want kids to look alike. We want them to take so many AP classes, we fixate on the scores, and oh, by the way, they should have so many activities and they should also be leaders. They get headaches, or migraines, or stomach problems — all the classic signs of stress — because the adults in their world are holding them to such a high standard. There's no room to fai

http://www.telegraphindia.com/1060918/asp/atleisure/story_6760331.asp
http://www.telegraphindia.com/1060918/images/18mit.jpg
MIT dean of admissions Marilee Jones (right) with her daughter Nora Jones, a college freshman (AP)

Quote:

Now, from the pulpit of a university famous for its overachievers, she has become perhaps the field’s most visible and outspoken champion of revamping admissions. “Nothing will change unless we get up, look ourselves in the mirror and say, ‘I’m responsible,’” Jones told her admissions colleagues. “We have to look ourselves in the eye and say, ‘Am I an educator, or am I marketer?’”

That's an easy decision, they had no choice, they had to fire her.

Doesn't anyone check this ****? How does this still happen..... 28 years? Well, I have something new to add to my management corruption briefs for clients.

Her resume is amiss, however her message is quite accurate. We've lost a generation of students who didn't go/wouldn't be going to college and alternative training wasn't provided for them. Same for those who made it to college and dropped out for one reason or another.

Whats so hard about getting a College degree, even someone like me got one. My piece of paper has University of California printed on it...Woooohoooo.... So its in Rubber Stamped block letters but what the he11 who is going to know the difference. ...

I applaud the decision to fire her. People need to stand up for what is morally correct, David

Illegal immigrants who come to the US can do good job too. But they are illegal nonetheless. Why would I have gone through the legal channels, gotten a college education, if I could have come in illegally and fabricated my degrees? It is not a matter of how good she became at her job. It is a matter that she went in front of people who had followed the rules. Just like the *******s who cut you on the highway to get ahead.

Aurel