Trip to India, some random pics and thoughts

[Shaun @ Tru6]

Got back Sunday evening from a week long trip to India to set up production. it was really non-stop work with a lot of travel to factories in the country, so I didn't get many pics, virtually none of India itself, mostly just factory/production/apparel pics. Will be back in September and plan to do a little sight seeing.

I should have kept some kind of journal because so much happened, there's no way I can remember it all. One theme that permeated the trip was that my hosts, and their production contacts, would move mountains for a tiny company like ours. Best example: we went to a Levi's/Bennetton factory that produced 20,000 pairs of jeans DAILY. Our order is 3,000 pair for the Fall. We were generally treated like our order was 10X as large, full plant tour, spent about 3 hours there. but what really freaked me out was that we saw some denim on the shop floor that looked like it matched ours (it's a rare color that starts out black in raw state, then deep blue with a little bleach, then light sea green-blue when fully bleached out). By the time we got back up to the offices, they had done a full 10-shading bleach grading to show how it would look. Amazing. The entire trip was filled with things like this...going way past the distance to get the business. Everything was prototyped while I was there. That would never happen in the US; you couldn't even pay for this service.

What's important to note is that in just getting quotes here in the States (NY and LA manufacturers), we were made to feel like we were ordering 3 pair of pants. I could go a lot about this, but the net is I no longer feel bad for domestic apparel production. they deserve to be out of business.

Random things:
Ended up staying at a local hotel which was easily as nice as the Marriott next door. Marriott: $150 per night; Chennai Inn: $45 per night.

Had a houseboy; Tikri. Slept on 2 sheets of newspaper outside the door. Got me anything I wanted, proactively got coffee, chai, etc. Earned a big tip.

Flew to Coimbatur for two days, drove around the countryside, and we'd go through a small village, then down a dirt road, round a bend, and hey, look, there's a factory: knitting, dying, cut&sew... The owners, all of them, were proud men, who wanted nothing more to show you around. great hosts.

With India's economy growing and rupee increasing in value, there's a skilled labor shortage in apparel production. this is a big concern in India, especially as other countries are paying workers a lot less these days.

Flew to Bangalore for the Levi's factory, took a train home. through out the trip, I took one bit of Joe's advice as gospel: don't drink the water. Didn't and I made it out just fine. I did however, eat all kinds of things I shouldn't have, touched things I shouldn't have with no wipes on hand, etc. Got lucky. Food was amazing.

The overarching problem with India is local corruption. here in the States, we have corruption mostly at the top. In India, it's the policeman on the street, the local politician, etc. There's a ton of new construction, but so much of it looks abandoned. That's because some local politician or businessman has yet to be bribed or paid-off. My hosts were blunt!

I had a driver the entire time, so didn't get to drive. The great thing about Indian driving is that there are practically no rules whatsoever, and you know what, it works.

Gas was about $4/gallon doing quick math.

A local newspaper was firebombed because it ran a poll: of two brothers, one would "inherit" a long-time political position from their dad who would be retiring soon. One brother got 80%, another 2%. The brother with 2% had his followers firebomb the paper. Police did nothing even as the small mob made its way to the paper. Follow-up was promised by the police, but won't result in anything. Curruption on the local level sucks.

total trip was about $2K when all was said and done. Felt like I learned $20K worth of knowledge.

there's a lot more, but that's all I can remember now.

A few pics (nothing great, and I definitely need a new camera)
Local festival. Behind the "float" was a sad little donkey towing a gas generator with electrical cords between them. festival.



Where our shirts will be made. these guys rocked, prototyping our unique bleach effect with the Urban Dino and really getting into the process.




Levis factory. All factories, youngest people there were maybe 16. Most were in their 20s. No child labor that I saw.




Making fabric for our shirts




Tikri and old Chevy.

[nostatic]

I just got back from a week in Beijing. Talked with a number of people from here and there. Bottom line is the US is in the twilight...just a question of how far down the slope we presently are.

Enjoy your plasma screens from Walmart. We're toast...

[notfarnow]

Great post... very interesting stuff Shaun

My dad's wife was a women's apparel buyer for years, travelled to factories around the world. She said the factories in Bangalore were amazing and many rivalled north amarican facilities in terms of working conditions. Work in these factories is consisidered a DREAM JOB for most locals.

That's in stark contrast to some of the stuff she saw in the Philippines.

[Zeke]

Originally posted by nostatic
I just got back from a week in Beijing. Talked with a number of people from here and there. Bottom line is the US is in the twilight...just a question of how far down the slope we presently are.

Enjoy your plasma screens from Walmart. We're toast...

Probably. I was wondering what I was really thinking when I started to read that Shuan was moving his business to India. But, I guess it's the way things are done. I watch the 2 shows on TV "How it's made" and "Made in America" and it's amazing what is still manufactured here in the US.

We can survive nicely IF we use our resources wisely and conserve. We still build the ideas, the rest of the world just makes them. But, NS, you're right that we'll never do it all ever again. Maybe we don't have to.

And, don't forget all the food we grow.

[gassy]

Nice write up Shawn. Cool to see the factories.
Christian.

[nostatic]

Milt, the problem is that most people don't think there is a problem. Right now the only competitive advantage we hold in the world marketplace is creativity and innovation. China and India can beat us with sheer numbers right now, and at the rate we're going, they'll overtake us on the creative side within 10-20 years.

We build the ideas? Look at the cellphone markets. We're a 3rd world country compared to Asia.

[Joeaksa]

Shaun,

Glad you had a good time and no issues. Taking the train is more than I would have done as they have a "train wreck" issue. Hardly a month goes by without one and usually hundreds are killed.

Its a different world there, somewhat like we used to be 150 years ago. Sad to see that its moved out of our country...

[TheMentat]

Originally posted by milt
I watch the 2 shows on TV "How it's made" and "Made in America" and it's amazing what is still manufactured here in the US.

what blows me away is the "token" human that you often see in what is otherwise a completely automated process, doing some job that a monkey could do... unreal.

[Wrecked944]

Thanks Shaun. That really is enlightening. And as for Shaun moving his business to India, be sure to ask him about the hell he endured as he tried his level best to have his shirts made in America. It wasn't all about price. But I'll let Shaun tell the story.

And as for America losing its status, I've actually talked with Shaun at length about this. And I think I may have an unusual opinion. Frankly, I think we'll all be a lot happier when America no longer rules the world - politically and economically. And I cite Britain as an example. They seem to have done very well without their empire. in the end, it was more of a burden than a benefit. And I recently read some stuff by the roman writer Juvenal who thought that the overseas empire ruined Rome in the same way. I think domestic democracy is inconsistent with imperial responsibilities. And I believe the drive to rule the world is costing us more than it is paying back - especially in terms of enemies who would otherwise be friends.

I say let the Chinese run it if they dare. Remember the myth of Damocles. He dreamed of being the king until he actually tried it for day and realized how badly it SUCKED.

[Rick Lee]

Originally posted by nostatic
Milt, the problem is that most people don't think there is a problem. Right now the only competitive advantage we hold in the world marketplace is creativity and innovation. China and India can beat us with sheer numbers right now, and at the rate we're going, they'll overtake us on the creative side within 10-20 years.

We build the ideas? Look at the cellphone markets. We're a 3rd world country compared to Asia.

I always thought cell phones and grocery stores were a good barometer for measuring wealth in countries I visited. But think about it. In the US domestic and especially local land line calls were always so cheap. Not so in Europe. Deutsche Telekom is a textbook example of why cell phones took off there and were cheaper than having a phone in your house. And in China, ten yrs. ago, most people could only ever dream of having any kind of phone. The country is just too big to start laying cable or fiber optic everywhere. So cell phones took off. The US will never catch up to those places with cell phones. It doesn't bother me though. I pay a flat monthly fee, no roaming charges, no long distance and all the text messaging I want. In China I had to buy SIM cards everywhere I went and could not keep my phone number from changing with each one. Yes, it was cheap. But it was not very convenient.

[The Gaijin]

Our technology and open markets are a gift to this world. China and India combined have 2 billion people being lifted our of poverty and miserable political control thanks to us. I don't see it as a bad thing. Them poor and angry? That would be BAD.

[85eurocarrera]

Good for India. They need something to keep all those people busy. (and I do not mean that in a derogatory way) They are "weaving" clothes while our technology is leading us to "weave" airplane fuesalages out of carbon fiber.

Enjoy your plasma screens from Walmart. We're toast...

I like our chances

p.s. sorry, I don't know how to pull quotes out of replies.

[The Gaijin]

Originally posted by 85eurocarrera


p.s. sorry, I don't know how to pull quotes out of replies.

Hit the quote button - lower right - and delete what you dont want.

[scottmandue]

Originally posted by JanusCole
Frankly, I think we'll all be a lot happier when America no longer rules the world - politically and economically. And I cite Britain as an example. They seem to have done very well without their empire. in the end, it was more of a burden than a benefit. And I recently read some stuff by the roman writer Juvenal who thought that the overseas empire ruined Rome in the same way. I think domestic democracy is inconsistent with imperial responsibilities. And I believe the drive to rule the world is costing us more than it is paying back - especially in terms of enemies who would otherwise be friends.

I say let the Chinese run it if they dare. Remember the myth of Damocles. He dreamed of being the king until he actually tried it for day and realized how badly it SUCKED.

I never though of it that way but it does make a lot of sense... we send billions of dollars overseas every year to built hospitals, schools, roads, etc. to make "friends" all over the world while our country is falling apart.

[nostatic]

Originally posted by 85eurocarrera
Good for India. They need something to keep all those people busy. (and I do not mean that in a derogatory way) They are "weaving" clothes while our technology is leading us to "weave" airplane fuesalages out of carbon fiber.

I like our chances

Have you traveled outside the US recently? Do you know what they are "weaving" in China, Korea, Malaysia, etc?

England didn't think it would lose its global dominance either...

[Shaun @ Tru6]

Quick note: China launched its first Chinese made AND Chinese launched communications satellite for Nigeria yesterday. When the Nigerian PM was asked why they selected China vs. US or Europe, one word: price.

it's one thing for China to make t-shirts for the world, or even plasma TV's. But when they've just undercut the two world leaders in the space industry, that's the true beginning of the end.

Post trip, no time to go into detail, but I believe that the combination of:

overseas manufacturing at all class levels AND

illegal aliens at lower and middle class levels AND

American, nationalist apathy at all levels AND

a $half trillion war with negative ROI means one thing: the middle class is toast in the next 10 years.

the U.S. has no infrastructure to remain competitive in the future. Schools are crumbling. Our Energy Policy is currently bad Foreign Policy. Boomers want their SS and so on.

In short, there is no National plan, no vision for the future. If I were a Rep. or a Dem. Presidential candidate, I'd scare the hell out of the masses and then layout a comprehensive plan to win.

Good news though. best job in the U.S. over the next 20 years? International Business Law. Get your kids on the law track now.

[Wrecked944]

Originally posted by nostatic
England didn't think it would lose its global dominance either...

But is England really worse off for it? Seriously.

[85eurocarrera]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by nostatic
[B]Have you traveled outside the US recently? Do you know what they are "weaving" in China, Korea, Malaysia, etc

No and no. I may be a little behind the times as far as a world traveler goes, I hate to fly.

Thanks Gaijin, I think I got it

[Zeke]

Originally posted by JanusCole
But is England really worse off for it? Seriously.

Well, they don't have a smokin' economy. No taxes from all those countries they once ruled.

If we say OK, all the clothes are gonna be made overseas, fine. But, we are having off shore countries do a lot more than manufacture for our needs. I could never understand the support centers (call centers) being taken off shore. Oh sure, economics. But, at a terrible price.

Yeah, one billion strong is intimidating, but their own weight of overpopulation is what's gonna help keep the scales a little more level (I hope).

[tabs]

Back in 1980 I saw the ROT setting in. This country stopped doing things the right way and started doing 'Business as Usual" Everybody wanted their piece of the cake and nobody was willing to take less when the economy was under duress. That was about the time I started comparing the USA to the Roman Empire. The only real solution is a complete collapse of the system, until then we will continue to sell a little piece of America off everyday. It has been quiet recently that I finally saw where the ROT started, it was LBJs Guns and Butter Strategy during the Vietnam War. He basically said we can do it all, fight a war and not have the people sacrafice anything of their lifestyle. That set the precedent.

Then there is the matter of the Multinational Corps transcending the Nation State. For the first time US Corps have less invested in the world than they have invested in our Corps.

Americans have grown accustomed to being number 1, while forgetting what it takes to get there. NO Politician will ever try and scare the US population to do so would kill the economy. I have said that over and over again on this Board, thats why GW, the Dems and the Media don't level with the people