Pelican Parts Forums

Pelican Parts Forums (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/)
-   Off Topic Discussions (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-topic-discussions/)
-   -   Engineering / Physics Teaser Question on Gyroscopic Motion (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-topic-discussions/347069-engineering-physics-teaser-question-gyroscopic-motion.html)

M.D. Holloway 05-17-2007 08:18 AM

Engineering / Physics Teaser Question on Gyroscopic Motion
 
A physicist played a prank on his friend by placing a large spinning wheel inside a suitcase. He asked his friend to go to the next room and bring back the suitcase. His friend picked up the handle of the case in his left hand, unaware that the wheel was spinning inside in a counterclockwise motion, with the top of the wheel moving towards the front of the case. What happened to the case when his friend exited the room and made a left-hand turn?

oldE 05-17-2007 08:43 AM

He tripped over the case.

Les

Jim727 05-17-2007 08:48 AM

Well, Mr. Wizard....

Assuming the axis of the gyroscope is horizontal and rigidly fixed to the inside of the suitcase, the suitcase would attempt to rotate clockwise wrt the guy carrying it. At least if I remember my right-hand-rule correctly.

Aerkuld 05-17-2007 08:48 AM

If I'm thinking about this correctly the rotating flywheel would attempt to rotate clockwise along a horizontal axis when viewed from behind. The combined action of the rotation about the vertical axis and the flywheels reactive rotation would cause the top rear corner of the suitcase to move towards the carrier and the bottom front corner of the suitcase to move away, effectively causing a rotation around a roughly diagonal axis.

GO DAWG GO 05-17-2007 09:14 AM

The gyroscopic effect would only stabilize the suitcase and maintain the heading or orientation of the wheel and limit translation.. If the carrier turned the suitcase would not eccelerate in the vector it would continue in its present processive course. That is if the rotational axis is horizontal.

If I understand your scenerio correctly.

Rick Lee 05-17-2007 09:22 AM

If it's inside the case, it can't be seen and so Heisenberg's Uncertainty Princ. kicks in. Shining light on it (opening the case) would affect the movement. So there's no way to know to really know what happens. Sort of like a tree falling with no one around to hear it.

GO DAWG GO 05-17-2007 09:22 AM

After reading the question again..I completely agree with oldE. He is absolutely right. even if the wheel was spinning the opposite direction. The suit case would trip the guy....

Aerkuld 05-17-2007 09:48 AM

I think you have to assume that the person carrying the case does try to rotate it about it's vertical axis.
I'm thinking about the way you lean a motorcyle into a corner by turning the steering in the opposite direction to the turn of the corner.

cashflyer 05-17-2007 10:18 AM

Torque-induced gyroscopic precession will cause the case to pitch perpendicular to the rotational axis, about 90 degrees forward of the point of induced torque.

Aerkuld 05-17-2007 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by cashflyer
Torque-induced gyroscopic precession will cause the case to pitch perpendicular to the rotational axis, about 90 degrees forward of the point of induced torque.
I agree. What your saying is that the spinning flywheel will produce a rotation at 90 degrees to the original input rotation and 90 degrees to the axis of rotation of the flywheel. But do you not then get a resultant rotation that is a combination of the intended rotation and the torque induced rotation?

GO DAWG GO 05-17-2007 10:32 AM

Cashflyer, The rotational ecceleration are very limited....Your right if they are ~2+ G eccelerations. The component of torque would be negligable

THUS... Tripping the guy!

cashflyer 05-17-2007 10:35 AM

Hey... I only know helicopter blades, not suitcases. That requires a whole different field of study.

Aerkuld 05-17-2007 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Aerkuld
I agree. What your saying is that the spinning flywheel will produce a rotation at 90 degrees to the original input rotation and 90 degrees to the axis of rotation of the flywheel. But do you not then get a resultant rotation that is a combination of the intended rotation and the torque induced rotation?
To answer my own question - NO.

legion 05-17-2007 10:48 AM

Is this another thread where Lubey is never really going to give us the answer?

Porsche-O-Phile 05-17-2007 01:43 PM

My guess is that the gyroscope did not stay rotating once the case was closed due to improper lubrication by an inferior grade of industrial lubricant. :)

M.D. Holloway 05-17-2007 01:47 PM

Ok, here goes...

The case pivoted top over bottom due to gyroscopic motion. The top of the case rotated sideways towards his friend's leg while the bottom of the case rotated upwards, away from him. Gyroscopic motion is fairly complicated, but can be explained by picturing the spinning wheel as a square ring with a heavy fluid flowing through it. As the friend turns left, the fluid flowing in a vertical (up or down) motion does not change direction. The fluid flowing horizontally, does change direction as the case is turned. A portion of the fluid that is flowing vertically (up or down) is forced to travel in a curve as the friend turns left. This exerts a force on the side of the case, forcing the bottom to lift away from the friend and the top to rotate towards him. The resulting motion of the rotating wheel is exactly the same as the fluid flowing through the square ring.

M.D. Holloway 05-17-2007 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Porsche-O-Phile
My guess is that the gyroscope did not stay rotating once the case was closed due to improper lubrication by an inferior grade of industrial lubricant. :)
I always did like the way you thought!:D

Burnin' oil 05-17-2007 01:51 PM

Very small rocks?

Jim727 05-17-2007 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by LubeMaster77
Ok, here goes...

The case pivoted top over bottom due to gyroscopic motion. The top of the case rotated sideways towards his friend's leg while the bottom of the case rotated upwards, away from him. Gyroscopic motion is fairly complicated, but can be explained by picturing the spinning wheel as a square ring with a heavy fluid flowing through it. As the friend turns left, the fluid flowing in a vertical (up or down) motion does not change direction. The fluid flowing horizontally, does change direction as the case is turned. A portion of the fluid that is flowing vertically (up or down) is forced to travel in a curve as the friend turns left. This exerts a force on the side of the case, forcing the bottom to lift away from the friend and the top to rotate towards him. The resulting motion of the rotating wheel is exactly the same as the fluid flowing through the square ring.

Clockwise. TaDaaaaaaa!

Hoots 05-17-2007 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by LubeMaster77
The case pivoted top over bottom due to gyroscopic motion. The top of the case rotated sideways towards his friend's leg while the bottom of the case rotated upwards, away from him. Gyroscopic motion is fairly complicated, but can be explained by picturing the spinning wheel as a square ring with a heavy fluid flowing through it. As the friend turns left, the fluid flowing in a vertical (up or down) motion does not change direction. The fluid flowing horizontally, does change direction as the case is turned. A portion of the fluid that is flowing vertically (up or down) is forced to travel in a curve as the friend turns left. This exerts a force on the side of the case, forcing the bottom to lift away from the friend and the top to rotate towards him. The resulting motion of the rotating wheel is exactly the same as the fluid flowing through the square ring.
You could have just said oldE was correct.

svandamme 05-18-2007 04:27 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Wayne at Pelican Parts
You can do the same experiment by sitting on an office chair, and spinning a free bicycle wheel and then rotating it 90 degrees so it's vertical and then parallel with the floor. Your chair will spin 90 degrees.

-Wayne


it was a big problem on WW1 radial engined fighter planes who would violently dive when turning left/pull up when turning right or something like that

cashflyer 05-18-2007 05:37 AM

More of a problem on the rotary engines than the radial engines.

(And I do not mean wankel engines)

svandamme 05-18-2007 05:46 AM

my mistake, got the 2 mixed up

Drago 05-18-2007 01:10 PM

He got you all....physicists don't have friends.


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 02:38 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2025 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website


DTO Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.