i'm sure it was difficult to log every crash with details with ze germans still occupying ze region

I dunno about that. The Hun are a meticulous people.

If the Germans logged every aspect of the concentration camps, even while the Russians were knocking on their door, you can bet that they logged the crashes. The Allied forces as well made a ballpark record of where each aircraft was lost.

Its now coming out that the Germans are re-constructing the paperwork that the Stasi shredded when East Germany fell. There are TONS of sensitive paperwork that was shredded that was saved. Now they are using a computer program to put it all back together...

The Germans like paperwork... a lot.

Too cool for words! Subscribing!

Joe, I'm finding tidbits from all over. Unfortunately there is not comprehensive list of crash sites for Europe (that I have found anyway). I did find a cool webpage (translated from German) that lists many crash sites in some of the nearby counties but none specifically from here (Rhineland Pfalz). I've found info from misc. sources including some of the bomber group associations (that's where most of the tail #'s came form). Most of the info is very limited and restricted to phrases like "Crashed near Daun". From there it is up to me to inquire with the local historical society and ask locals.

I am absolutely open to any and all tips, links, and/or other misc. info any of you care to pass along. If you even want to do some independent research and pass it along I'll add it to the map and if it's close try to scout it out too.

Obviously I work full time and am trying to focus on sites very close to my home as it makes doing some serious searching feasable.

Lee,

When you get back to CONUS and if you are still interested in this sort of thing, I have the list from the Air Force that I can scan for you. Airplanes all over the country but mostly in the SW part. During the war the majority of the training and such was done where the weather was good and hopefully allowed training 24 hours a day. Thats why this area had so many accidents.

Finding old aircraft wrecks is a lot of fun. There was a T-50 Bobcat (twin engine advanced training aircraft) that crashed off of DM air base in Tucson during WW2. Did not find it for years. Back in the 1980's or so two hunters were on Mt. Lemon and saw something in the brush. It was the T-50, where it had been sitting for over 40 years. Bodies were still inside so the AF was called to help. Plane had crashed up a ravine at night in a snowstorm. Going up the ravine it had cut down a bunch of trees that then fell on top of the plane, hiding it for years. This plane, or parts of it are now restored in the Pima Air Museum in Tucson.

Around Christmas in 1944 four P-51's took off from Tucson's DM air base for a two hour navigation flight. Flew from Tucson to Douglas and were heard overhead. They were then supposed to turn West and hit one more point then return to Tucson. They have never been found and are somewhere either in Southern Arizona or Northern Mexico (Douglas is right on the border) just waiting for someone to find them. I can almost guarantee that they are in a real rugged mountainous area, otherwise someone would have found them long ago.

The old WW2 wrecks are still out there waiting to be found...

Joe

The weather has been wet and dreary here this weekend, but it dried up enough today to go for a walk around the crash site. In the satellite photos you can see a rather large hole where there used to be a rock quarry. On the site there is now a new quarry about 200 yards away. The hole seen in the satellite photo has recently (past few years at most) filled in with loose rubble. There has been an aweful lot of digging in the area from the rock quarry activity. I figure it could either be a blessing (by unearthing bits we could not otherwise get to) or a show stopper (they could be throwing the quarry rubble directly over the site.

What I have learned for certain is that this is the absolute worst time of year to try and find small bits of metal laying on the ground. The vegitation is so thick I can barely get into the wooded areas. I'm going to have to do a good "tick check" here in a bit. YIKES!

Also, take a look at these wild flowers:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1180285085.jpg

My best guess is that this area is where the plane came down.

Eye witness accounts said that the crash was visable from the hill near Neiderstedem. The area in the photo faces Neiderstedem... any further to the east and the crests obscuring the view from Neiderstedem. Like I said though, it's just a guess.
Also, shortly after the aircraft crashed it caught fire. Locals sat on the hill and watched it burn for some time. At least one of the bombs on board was reported to have exploded. I can only assume this must have really thrown a lot of wreckage a considerable distance. So, just because I find a piece or two doesn't really pin point the wreck site.

At any rate, I did manage to find a few artifacts I am reasonably certain came from our B-26.

Both pieces appear to be aluminum tubing possibly from the hydraulic systems aboard the aircraft.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1180284994.jpg

A larger piece still has what appears to be bits of black paint on it too.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1180285030.jpg [img]

Well, we've had some of the most utterly worthless weather on record lately. That, plus my recovery from surgery has put me back a bit in the hunt for the B-26. That area is a mud pit and will remain so until we get about a week of dry weather.

In the mean time, I have turned my attention to other sites.

So, I thought I'd post a few photos of a wreck site I visited yesterday.

For this one, we had to trek up the side of a mountain deep in Belgium to find the remains of a Hudson Bomber that crashed during WWII. For those of you aircraft buffs, the Hudson was essentially a Lockheed Electra fitted for wartime.
This particular aircraft was one of several on a mission to insert British Special Agents (later called SAS) deep into Germany, but the details of the mission have been lost to time. One plane in the flight took heavy fire from the ground and crashed in this spot, killing all the crew, save the pilot, and it's commando payload. The village locals buried the men at the site and drug the wreckage around the graves creating a makeshift memorial in the shape of an airplane.

Both engines remain as well as the tail section (with Serial Number still present) and the outboard sections of the wings.

This is a very remote spot (for Europe) and it has ALMOST escaped the looter/A-Hole-Commie Scum who would destroy the memorial for bits of souvenirs. Both engines are still present and sadly have had both the upright propellers cut off recently. Someone actually had to venture up there with an electric cutoff wheel and hack off the blades. Very sad.

Anyway, here are the photos of the site today.

I also visited the wreck site of an M.e 109 that crashed in 1940 after the pilot passed out due to a frozen oxygen line. We also found a site where a pair of B-17G's crashed on the Luxembourg border after a mid air collision (blamed on prop wash) sent them into one another. There is now a memorial erected in their honor.
As of Sunday I will officially be a member of the European Historical Society.

But now for some photos:


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1183754786.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1183754830.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1183754845.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1183754878.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1183754968.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1183754998.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1183755170.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1183755186.jpg

Lee,

See if you can find the BU (bureau number) on any of the pieces. That would identify the plane and give you a lead to finding its past history.

Great stuff, keep it coming. Hows the shoulder? Hope its getting better!

Joe

awesome pictures. thanks for posting/updating lee.

How exciting.

Another interesting thing is how well the aluminum keeps considering the weather it's exposed to.

Fascinating thread!

This topic really interests me as I have a crash site that I want to visit someday. It's where my dad's B-52D came down in Hanoi. It'll be easy to find, and there are even pictures of it readily available. I just have to get over there...

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1184118067.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1184118090.jpg

Fortunately, he ejected safely.

BB.