" This is typical western thinking. Applying the way we think towards another culture and expecting them to react as we would. It's the same reason people think that peace talks will work, etc. China hasn't changed very quickly over the past 3000 years.

Excuse me...China hasn't changed much! Wow! Take a good look at just the last 20. There people will demand higher wages. The environmental Nazis will get in there and raise hell. The only way they wont is if the Chinese government threatens to shoot them...

Robert, China is ruled by corruption. It's an overriding theme for the entire country.

there will be no effective EPA
there will be no effective OSHA
there will be no effective child labor laws
there will be no effective unions

You have to stop looking at China through Western eyes. India is substantially better than China in terms of labor. Even so, every factory I visited recently had a sign hanging in the worker's entrance: Working here is a privilege."

with a billion people in the country, if you, or your factory, or your industry (choose your scale) want more $ for your time, there's ALWAYS someone, some group, that will take less.

lastly, there is no comparison between China and Japan. One has more natural resources and $ than its corrupt government-business powerbase can spend. The other just had a lot of $, a great work ethic, and a little island.

So Shaun..Then the Chinese will shoot them...;) see, I wasnt wrong..Right! I know these things. The next generation of Chinese will be more liberal and allow the (perestroika) sp? Then ..then the commy's will officially be finished and the neo-crowd of labor advocates and enviroweenies will make a face. You cant say I'm completely wrong. Change is enevitable...

Shaun,
Ist ...sorry about the mispelled words. I have to do this under the gun and dont get a chance to double check my fumbling fingers. Nostaic will give me hell later.

Look at what Lubey just publish about labor advocates in China. I havn't read it but it looks sympathetic to there slaves...Thats how it all starts.

The US is the worlds number one manufacturer, accounting for about one quarter of the global manufacturing output. The US may have dipped slightly in the past few years but not nearly as bad as Japan, France and Germany.

China and Korea have risen. The rising costs of energy, health care and several other non-production factors will and have affected the ability of the US manufacturing.

In certain pockets of the US, it would seem that manufacturing is stalled or weakening. The same can be said for the housing build market. In various parts of California, housing is dying a slow death but in Tejas and other states it is doing very well (as is infra-structure construction).

We tend to base or opinions on our experiences - lets not fall into that trap. The US manufacturing sector is very strong. Don't think that the plant closing in your area is a bellweather for things to come.

Mike, do you have any stats on mfg profits in the US? Output is one thing, profits is another.

What is it a bellwether for?

>The US is the worlds number one manufacturer,

Yeah, but what happens when you take big macs and frappuchinos out of the stats?

so when I order tomato on my McChickenTM, I'm actually creating manufacturing jobs? WOW! and $1.20 worth of goodness to boot!

All joking aside,

You have to admit, The US food industry is incredibly huge, 4 trillion in GDP. Probably bigger than China's manufacturing base. I bet Tyson Chicken in Arkansas is the world leader and the industry standard in the world producing more chicken than the rest of the world combined. The U.S. farming industry feeds the world also. No question. This is a good thing. But also we need to maintain our technology advantage. This will prove to be more of a adventure.

So I guess you don't know that China is at this very moment lobbying hard for the ability to import chicken into the US, and what's more scary is that the Bush Admin is helping them.

Forget salmonella. Bird flu will be soon be all the rage. But it will be CHEAP! Imagine McNuggets, 8 for $1!

Technology has changed yes, which makes it look different, culture, no.

Maybe why it is tougher here. I have more info on the specifics as in healthcare costs, energy costs and even tort costs as well as tax breaks. The US gets dinged the worst.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1182291958.jpg

You guys are funny with your fast food being a mfg'd good! Thats a different sector! Food Processing and Beverage is different. The factories that produce McNuggets also make chicken patties for Wal-Mart and Target. Fast food isn't as big as you think.

Here are the some more charts - I love charts. They are so ...charty.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1182292377.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1182292391.jpg

And some of you guys are correct, manufacturing does influence other sectors...

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1182292803.jpg


And the trade imbalence exsists, but not as bad as you would think. Still. as tough as it is to build product here, I am suprised we do it at all.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1182292894.jpg