Hamas, the "Empire of Darkness?"

djmcmath · 06-21-2007, 03:48 AM

So I'm listening to NPR again on the drive in to work, and they're telling how Fatah has described Hamas as "the Empire of Darkness," and how they "will not negotiate with terrorists," and I'm wondering where they learned this kind of foreign policy? Is this pandering to the Bush Fan-Boi Crowd, or is he serious? And is that a Good Thing or a Bad Thing?

In all seriousness, I've been just a bit sparse on details. Is Fatah devoted to the destruction of the Zionist movement as well, or are they more subtle about that?

Joeaksa · 06-21-2007, 06:34 AM

As usual its Bush's fault...

MRM · 06-21-2007, 06:38 AM

The PLO is an umbrella organization that counts as members groups that cooperate in the destruction of Israel but would as soon kill each other as look at them. It dates back to the era between the Israeli war of independence and the Six Day War. Fatah is to the PLO kind of what Sin Fein is to the IRA.

Hamas is a rival oranization that grew up out of the gridlock of the 1980s as a response to the corruption of the PLO and Arafat. Think of them as the Black Panthers. They started out as a charity because the PLO was doing nothing to help the people in PLO controlled refuge camps. They quickly morphed into an armed group that provided charitable services rather than a charity that had some armed men. But yet they still run real social support services and they skim relatively little from the top before passing it on.

Hamas is the product of Iran. Fatah came from the Arab states.

So now Fatah is the old guard that has been entrenched in power and growing rich by skimming, and doing little to help the Palestinian masses because they keep their power and wealth by keeping the massess in refugee camps. Hamas are the young turks, agitating on the street for everything from clean water to the destruction of Israel.

Fatah has gotten tired of fighting Israel, and with the death of Arafat, would prefer to get along with Israel and get rich, rather than keep fighting and live in refugee camps. Hamas is just the oposite. They see themselves as the purists, continuing to take the fight to Israel and providing social services. To answer the direct question, Fatah has agreed to a two state solution and has eliminated the destruction of Israel from their party platform. The suicide bombers and missle launchers still attacking Israel are coming from Hamas-affiliated organizations.

Fatah and Hamas have co-existed for a long time because neither wanted to take the other on. When the US was asking Fatah to take out Hamas we were asking them to engage in a civil war to take out the rival faction. What just happened was the opening shot in the inevitable civil war. They are rival factions. They don't represent different ideologies; they just represent different groups where if one faction wins the other loses.

Right now Fatah is willing to make nice with the West; Hamas is not. Hamas has to use their fight against Israel as evidence that they don't share the corruption of Fatah. The Arab street is divided between the two sides. One can't win without the other losing. Fatah is in a fight to the death with Hamas, which probably explains their rhetoric. Fatah is losing, having been routed in a week or so from positions they held for decades, which probably explains their desperation.

Like it or not, Fatah is a largely corrupt organization that might not have the power to reform and lead the way it has been promising. Hamas is a much better organized group, better trained, less corrupt and far more effective. The road to middle east peace probably goes through Hamas.

tabs · 06-21-2007, 08:57 AM

Well MRM you finally said something usefull...

MRM · 11:01 AM

Typical American thinking, Tabs.

tabs · 06-21-2007, 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by MRM
Typical American thinking, Tabs.

MRM, U need to learn how to be unequivocal when making your point.

coldstart · 06-21-2007, 09:59 AM

It's Bush and the Jews' fault. Infidels!

I agree with most of MRM's history. Fatah still has a substantial armed wing that is bent on destruction of Israel/Jews (Al Asqua Brigades). The road to peace does lie through Hamas-- with them lying dead on the road. They will never make peace with Israel-- ever.

Hamas attempted to assinate Mahmoud Abbas or Abu Mazen (or whatever is his current nom de guerre), the leader of Fatah last month. He saw the video of them laying explosives under the road he was supposed to travel and bragging about his death. That is why he called Hamas "murdering terrorists".

MRM · 11:04 AM

I tried to leave a smiley, Tabs. I'll edit it in now. You were supposed to see the irony of me using your line when you complimented me.

My theory on dealing with Hamas is three-fold: 1) Identify and encourage moderate elements who are willing to trade land for peace, peace for peace, or money for peace; 2) Create circumstances that do not encourage radicalization of the Palestinian street and therefore hurt recruitment into Hamas and encourage popular moderate movements; and 3) Marginalize and eliminate the ones who prefer death to peace. If all goes well there will be fewer of them as time goes on. It's a fools game to try only to kill the bad guys faster than they can be created. You have to kill the bad guys but at the same time you need to interfere with the process that creates them.