Downtown lofts,

Bill Cooper

LA city lofts

Heck, just do a yahoo search on "Los Angeles lofts" and you will get a whole page of websites to check out.

James, you may want to note that some people posting here don't live in California.

disagree with most of the post above. LIVE NEAR A BART STATION! (if you come back to the bay area) most companies give some sort of incentive to take bart. my friend's place pays for 50% of bart tix. my company almost gives them to me. if you are talking 200k range, you have to be addicted to something stupid to not be able to live here. i can live here, and i also own a house. among my friends, i have to be the lowest paid. if i can do it, anyone can. i commute...FAR! i leave my house at 5 tho. it takes me 35 minutes to get to work, upwards of 2 hours to get home. i bought sat radio, company pays for the vehicle and the gas....i dont complain too much. as far has renting until the bubble burst so you can get in at entry level...no way. you will just end up buying in at a higher level. i say strike when you can. get in ASAP. some people have sold homes to "wait it out" and rent. these folks have lost money.

get back over here, james. the pcar community is cool here.

If you are questioning whether you can afford to live in California making $250K per year, your statement above is obvious.

Yup! I like our area because of the good weather, air, beach and mountain access, and 'relatively' uncrowded freeways. And don't forget Mulholland. :)

If you could find a position around here with that anticipated income, you could afford Stuff like this.

Or spend a bit more for This

the bottom line is that when you say you want to live in "LA" that really doesn't mean anything. LA is HUGE, and most people consider OC and part of Riverside/SB counties to be part of "LA".

This place is totally job dependent. But there are no "secret areas" left to buy in. You want to live close to the beach, you pay (btw, I don't consider where I live a "beach city"). If you want to live in a nice neighborhood with decent schools, you pay. There is no free lunch here, and in fact there are only expensive lunches.

The key is to find a job, then see where it is located and what your options are. A few miles here or there can make 30-60 mintues difference in your commute. Some people don't seem to mind commuting, and live inland to get a bigger/nicer house. No way I could do that...but to each their own.

And seriously...people live on a hell of a lot less than $200K/year (I know I do). But I also am renting, and won't buy until there is a significant market correction or I get a serious raise and/or get the rest of the equity out of my ex-house. In the meantime, I burn my money on my track car. Hell, I could be dead by next year...

thanks, the first link was for NC?

??? Let me try it again. But NC sure is nice :)

http://realestate.yahoo.com/California/Camarillo/Homes_for_sale/result.html;_ylt=AseI1pAhBsZzmk0OEx6ySqrnMrQs?cc=r ealestate&p=camarillo,%20ca&priceHigh=600000&price Low=500000&nodeId=750007014&radius=&bedrooms=&bath rooms=&type=classified&sortBy=price+1

I hear you dude, loud and clear. And I agree. My deal is that I don't have the little gene that makes a person want or need to have just that much more than the next person. I'd rather just be able to enjoy the car culture more, be able to have a bit better weather and also introduce my wife to the state I grew up in. I've lived in Texas, Oregon, Washington, Cali, NY, NC, Europe and now southern Indiana, which is really KT.

I always find a way to enjoy 'where I am at'. But everytime I come out to visit Cali and hang out with the folks there I am reminded in postive and negative ways why I miss it there. yeah, when Hayden, Tyson and me got stuck in traffic for about an hour going to Treffen, I knew that sux'd. But then, when we got to the back roads and had not one other car around for a good hour of driving I forgot all about the traffic :D

thanks! I think we could make it work. I may have to borrow 90% of the home's value to close the deal but it seems maybe that is more normal than I realized. We've only been out of school about 7 years and we just got married and blew the savings on ring, honeymoon, house, appliances, furniture (recall, NYC apt don't hold much..)

What are you looking for? Why not look south? Heck, I live in a 3000 sq/ft house on a large lake. My own two slip dock, 5 car garage, 1 acre lot (we don't measure lots in square feet down here....only houses). It's worth about $600k today....and there are plenty to be had between $500 and $750k.

Of course, we don't have silly traffic, choking pollution, earthquakes or fires. You'll have to ante up and live in CA for those attractions.

But we also don't have guys whose crowning achievement in life is snorting an entire tin of Skoal up through an empty Budweiser bottle.

South? I hear Mexico has wonderful opportunities!

yeah, that's not skoal residue in all those burnt pieces of tinfoil you find in the LBC

Rent for $1600 per month vs owning for say $4000 per month. ON an income of $250k the deduction for the interest on a mortage that requires a payment of $4000 per month will be almost $3500 per month for the first 1/2 of the loan period. In that tax bracket, the marginal tax rate is almost 90%. So you will get back 90% of $3500 or $3150. THat makes your monthly payment $850 vs $1600 for renting. Also renting does not have appreciation. Only a fool rents in this kind of market with that income.

Renters seem to be a bunch of never can make it types to me. They will never own anything. ANd typically never do.

No one with a decent income can afford to rent.

Its the taxes stupid.

interesting numbers. How come they didn't work that way when we were making that much combined and had about that much of a mortgage payment? Only paying $850 a month after taxes? Not quite...

SO CAL is so wonderfull, that everybody moved there. I guess I could say the same thing about the Bay Area as well. There in lies the problem all those extra people make it NOT SO WONDERFULL ANYMORE.

All U Johnny come latelys to CA just don't see it. If you don't have to work, SO CAL is not the place to be, nor is the Bay area. There are still wonderfull places to live in CA, that while more expensive than SO IN offer a beautiful lifestyle. Try the Central Coast or North Coast of CA. I don't understand why anybody would want to be part of a 20M strong Anthill called SO CA if they don't have to be. Living in LV it seems like every 5th car in the hoods have CALI License Plates.

The downside to living in CA is the the NANNY STATE MENTALITY and the corresponding TAX structure...

I will say Wayne has the right idea cash out when the market is high, rent, and buy back in after the downfall.

Other than that Wayne talks alot of smack about CA RE. He just hasn't been around long enough. I have seen 3 Big Booms and 2 Big Busts in CA RE. I have watched Cali RE for over 50 years now. we are on the verge of a BIG BUST in CA RE, back to levels of affordabilty. This is not going to be a quick process but along drawn out death of nearly a decade. When Wayne says that he doesn't think he will ever buy back into the RE market in SO CA, cause it ain't never gona come back is when I would buy.

that is info I needed to hear. We have our first home here and have not noticed a big benefit tax wise but this next reporting period will be our first taking full account of the home with respect to filling.

I appreciate your views. I think that the problem is that many people have a negative view of the 'fly over states' as I've heard them called. I'd want to move back for the ability to enjoy the car hobby more and to give my wife the chance to get to know 'where I grew up'. We might not do it, you guys have helped me a lot with ideas and perspectives that I would otherwise not have had - THANKS!

I can't believe you guys are recommending that someone pulling down 250K a year shoule rent a place for $1,600 a month. That's big bank that should allow him to live pretty much anywhere he wants. And that's not even factoring in the wife's income. What I can't figure out is why someone making this kind of money with no debt, living in IN, with no idea about CA earning numbers, no idea about CA home prices, has only 50-100K to put down on a home. I'm confused about this picture.

its called starting out with 100K+ of student debt... I have that nearly all paid off now.

You don't??? You need to leave your neighborhood and have a look around S. Cal say, 40 minutes east of the PCH. Orange County would be a good place to start.

But, what we don't seem to have here is snobs like you stereotyping based on too much time in front of the Blue Collar Comedy channel. I have millionaires living on both sides of me...but you would NEVER know it to sit and have a beer with them on the boat dock, or to look in their garages and their houses. On the other hand, in CA, pure peer pressure seems to be the over-riding motivation to have houses and cars most can't afford.

Big deal. Apparently, every man, woman and child living in California is a millionaire.

I've been told on this very board that while maybe you wouldn't pity a Californian only making between $200-$300K per year, a Californian considers that merely a "decent" income.

Good points, the. On one side is an AT&T executive retiree (35 years). On the other is a country boy who owns one of the biggest fence companies in the SE. Mow their own lawn, maintain their own houses, own their cars outright and enjoy a cold Bud while tossing a line in the water on an occasional weekday morning.

But rest assured, everyone else is chomping Skoal and spitting it on their shoes.

THis reminds meof the book: "The Millionare NExt Door"....YOu know..the guy that drives a Ford and mows his own lawn......

Physical assets do not let the casual observer tell if they are owned outright, mortgaged or leased.

Making it in SO CA is not beyond the possibilities for the average couple. Take the average pair of engineers. Each making about $100k to $150K for a total of $200k to $300k. A starter home is about $650k in Orange County. With 20% down ($130k) and a balance of $520k and 6% interest over a 30 or 40 year mortage, you get about $4000 per month. After tax it is LOWER than a $1600 per month rental. The tax man is ruthless.

This is far from impossible. I had some young engineers working for me that had saved over $200k at 26 years of age, single. One guy had over $300k saved (he invested in real estate).

Thats how they are doing it, one buck at a time.

My own daughter, age 26, just did the same thing with her new hubby. I suspect that she is typical of the new breed of young people coming into the market. No bucks from dad or mom.

So for all of you slackers out there, get on the stick and get to work. You can do it if you want to.

wow. different world. i left flying learjets to return to flight instruction, as i decided teaching was what fed my soul, thus my own priority. so i went from just over 100k to now around 35k instructing around 20 hours per week. my house is 1,300 sq. ft. i paid $79,500 with 18k down...mortgage piti is $490/mo. however, arkansas isn't most folks 'end of the rainbow'. i hope to sell one day, buy a cabin on a large area lake, have a little fishing boat and do a little instructing from a local airport. i will say it sucks not having health insurance anymore. but that's another story. way too populated in cali for my taste, but hope ya'll can make it work, james. one man's dream can be no better than another man's.

so you don't have health insurance by your own choice. I say thats y our choice as long as you don't impose upon me and my health insurance. We have the best health insurance in the world for over 250 million people. Some, about 40 million, have no insurance, but in fact have better actual health coverage than anyone, anyplace in the world. So bottom line. Don't FK up the coverage of over 250 million people to have theoretical coverage for 40 million people. People in the UK, Canada, France, Germany could only hope and pray to have the coverage the UNINSURED in this country have. DON"T FK UP THE INSURANCE OF OVER 250 MILLION PEOPLE, with so called universal coverage.

Put another way, 40 million no counts vs 250 million responsible people. Commuinist vs rational people.

I Say, if push comes to shove, let the 40 million die!

lol.

yes, i'm self-employed and it's by my choice. i'm considering purchasing 'catastrophic' health insurance to cover anything very serious of over 15k. short of that, i go to local medical clinics and pay their fee.

it is amazing the deep rooted passion that this thread has made evident. I frankly just wanted to learn about the reality of 'maybe' moving back to Cali. I've ended up learning a lot more!

live on a boat

not a bad idea Ronnie.

here's another one.


LA & metro is very different culture from NYC & metro. What they have in common is both are concrete jungles.


Check out job opportunities in Silver City, New Mexico and live in the Gila Wilderness. It's as pristine and wildlife wild as when Geronimo lived there.

HP is also road warrior friendly.

My wife works in health care, I can work in any industry but primary has been financial services/banking. I'd love that area but not sure if there are jobs there. We will see, based on this thread I've got about 3 years worth of saving to do before I can make this change. My wife is getting sponcered by her company to do her MBA so once that is done we want to start a family. Timing should be right.

This is a great place to be, just not sure its a 'forever' place to be for us...

Some good, some incredibly stupid advice here...

All I can say is that I've owned and rented in both Northern and Southern California, and now is not a good time to buy unless you like throwing money away.

Move back, by all means. We'd love to have you. But lease a nice 3/2 suburban house for a year and get your bearings. By then, the real estate market will be a bit more sane and you can plant yourself for a while.

There are little 'pockets' of very nice neighborhoods all over the Bay Area and So Cal. Most have been discovered and gentrified, and speculated sky high. But hang out here for a while and you'll find what you're looking for.

Want space for cars? There are very large lots (for us, 1/2 acre is a large lot) scattered all over L.A. Many houses with workshops or huge garages (I'm presently renting a house with a 4-car garage for $1800/mo.) Want easy access to twisty roads? The beach? TRE? There are neighborhoods you'd love to live in with homes as low as $750K. ($700K next year)

thanks, I appreciate your points. I think we are going to plan for it. While three years out might seem too early to some, I think it is hardly enough time given the expense, etc.

Would love to be out there with all my fellow car-aholics :-)

slight threadjack:

Unless you're independently wealthy, I don't know if there's ever a "right time" to start a family.

I'm moving back, too. Hopefully around the end of summer. And while my new job will be close enough to where I grew up that I could live with my parents (though I don't think my wife would be so keen on that), that's my plan: rent for a year or two, figure out exactly what/where we want, and then buy.

good luck

one thing I know about James is that he has the brass to pull off anything he's after.


3yrs is enough to at least visit the NM area i mentioned. At worst it'll put many things in perspective during a great vacation.

The Gila sits in the 3rd largest sq mi County in the US. Pop is 2,800. Locals drive like those in Montana so the 2 area cities are a sweet drive away. Other than a quick eyeball in the 911, you need a 4-wheeler to get around like the locals.

hanging with many locals in the coffee shop from daybreak till 9am in a very small Gila town is amazing.






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