Groups, Can you avoid leadership liability??
 

Like so many of you, we have a local group of Pelicans (and a few strays) who like to get out for some spirited driving adventures together. Recently I've been hearing some disturbing reports of individuals being held responsible for organizing and/or leading outings if someone has a problem related to their driving skills or their vehicle (trying to keep up or navigate the twisties). Have any of you had experience or addressed this potiential issue?
I've drafted this letter (for drivers interested in tagging along) to stave off being held responsible for others on our frequent drives.
Input would be helpful guys!

Greetings,

So... you’re interested in the Prescott Pelican Posse.

Actually some of us (who liked go out for fun drives together) were constantly being asked about our little cliché and about tagging along. In the first year we’ve gotten to know over 35 cars with drivers interested in knowing other like minded enthusiasts. With only two exceptions we are all Porsche, BMW, Lotus and on rare occasions... others.

We don’t invite motorcycles, Corvettes, Mustangs or street-racers. We don’t condone reckless or competitive driving or passing without being pointed around. We try to keep a respectable distance between cars and generally drive at a “spirited” pace.

Although we are not an organization, official group or club we are an assembly of like-minded friends who want to be included when there are opportunities to get out with other performance sports car lovers. There are no officers or leaders and no real order for that matter. One of us will send out a phone or email notice and information about the local runs as opportunities arise. Drivers who would like to be considered as a “guest” (if they’re not a Porsche/BMW or Lotus owner). Getting onto our list depends on you and your car. Drivers who create risks or problems won’t be invited back.

As a result we have a informal mix of ages, cars (street and track), driving experience levels and a people who love the twisties right here in our own backyard and.... occasionally, other places (road trips).

To get you started please send a current picture of your ride, a description of your car’s set-up and your contact information (phone/email). THese cautions and selective restrictions are offered for everyone’s protection and preference to choose who they drive with.

I'm not a lawyer, just an interesting topic.

I can understand a group of guys, calling, emailing, text messages, etc. to plan a drive. Invite whom you wish. Sure
Nothing formal, no 'leader', no 'officers,' no official ... 'club'. Then why the need for anything in writing?

You are going for a drive, on PUBLIC streets/highways. If a Mustang or Corvette, etc. jumps into the line and tags along, you certainly can't stop that action?

It seems to me the very fact that you produce a 'document', (should some weird accident occur), MIGHT give a lawyer some teeth to come after YOU in some manner as an organizer???
J.M.O.

Actually some of us (who liked go out for fun drives together) were constantly being asked about our little cliché

I'm sure your clique is a cliché all unto itself...

The less you put in writing the better you will be. "Spirited driving" is also open to discussion.

Donny,

You got a pm...

Cheers,

Lisa

That's a *terrible* letter to have out there if someone gets into an accident.

It does all the exact things you are trying to avoid.

Just some examples:

"We don’t invite motorcycles, Corvettes, Mustangs or street-racers."

So someone is making a conscious decision as to who will and won't be invited.

"Drivers who would like to be considered as a “guest” (if they’re not a Porsche/BMW or Lotus owner). Getting onto our list depends on you and your car. Drivers who create risks or problems won’t be invited back."

Great. So now you are offering to screen out problem or risky drivers! Taking responsibility for that. So if someone drives in a risky or problematic manner and causes an accident, it's probably because you were negligent in your self-imposed duty to screen them out.

"To get you started please send a current picture of your ride, a description of your car’s set-up and your contact information (phone/email). THese cautions and selective restrictions are offered for everyone’s protection and preference to choose who they drive with."

Now you are assuming a duty to use reasonable judgment in selectively restricting who is going to be there, and you are explicitly doing so for everyone's protection. You are explicitly offering to take steps to protect everyone. Therefore if someone gets hurt, there is going to be an argument that you failed in your duty to protect.

I hear ya! Sounds like the less said or printed the better. That's where I've been on this until recently asked by one of the crew. This was a "test the water" inquiry. I hear what I expected to hear. Thanks to all.
And "Thank you" Lisa,

My pleasure Donny :) .

"Been there, done that" more times than I can remember. It's all about "liability release"...

Cheers,

Lisa

Be careful with "liability releases" too.

Those are only really useful if everyone who could possibly be injured signs one. For example, you are having an autocross in an enclosed area, and everyone who is admitted into the area has signed one.

A "liability release" is 100% ineffective against a third party who has not signed it. So, if everyone in your group signs one, but then one of you kills some random motorist out on the road, that "liability release" is going to come back to haunt your group and its members, BIG TIME. It's going to be evidence that (1) you are some kind of organized group, and (2) you were all planning on engaging in risky behavior. After all, who signs a "liability release" to just drive in a normal, safe manner on public roads?

I agree, but therein lies the "risk" of any group of guys (and gals) setting off together for a "social outing".

Bugger this litigious world we live in :( ...

I hear it but I hate it. Our group will evolve into a social thing without someone organizing runs. Please! No more social organizations! But, Lisa, "social outings" sound on target. Time to just back off and stick with the trusted few of our original crew and one or two new pals. It was never an intention to end up with "an organization" or responsibility for being it's leader. The idea seemed to fill a space for a bunch of Porsche owners in our mountain town. I've made some excellent friends and learned a lot about my car and driving (DE days and time with more experienced drivers). Oh well, I'm pretty focused and usually alone in the car reguardless of who's behind me anyway... LOL
Thanks again to all. Think I'll take a quick lap through the twisties.... by myself.

Re: Groups, Can you avoid leadership liability??
 

Please send to whom? That's who the lawyer is going to identify as the leader.