I don't know how one can obtain 38mpg in a Prius, my experiences were 48-54mpg in the city with a lot of coasting.
The "estimated CAFE results" was quite a dissapointing fabrication on Toyotas part, but in reality the only one with better milage is the Honda Insight.

My mother bought a Prius a few years back, and at first I thought of it only as a good and necessary environmental hype.
It actually has very good seat and headroom height, a decent trunk area, decent interior materials, and visibilty is good as well. Accelleration was acceptable with the second generation.
The integrated controls are serious crap, though, and a major hazard to use-I felt safer driving a stick shift through rush hour traffic while drinking a big gulp, smoking, and playing with the radio stations.

If one averages total fuel expenses over the lifetime of the car, the extra money will start to be worth it. Kinda sad, though, that new Hondas have bigger engines, bigger price tags, and worse fuel economy.

You can do lots better ultimate MPG in a TDi if you try hard enough. I went on the launch of the Bora TDi when it was new (1999) and won the economy drive with 78.7 over 30 mixed road miles, but that was using every trick I had learnt over years of driving dealership cars with the fuel lights on!

I have run most of the modern TDis, and VAG are still ahead of the game in my opinion, but there is nothing size-wise with a TDi that can do 56mpg (UK gallon) average over 100 miles normal driving like this Prius, it's impressive technology. It drives well with a good vantage point for a car, nicely finished and equipped, very useful interior storage, all the right boxes ticked. All it needs is a better throttle pedal angle & heated seats and I will be totally sold.

Using this car has given me confidence for the future of my much-loved old cars. I now wouldn't hesitate to fit an hybrid kit to my old 911 rather than stop using it.

:D Good stuff!

The other week one pulled in next to me as I parked my 911. The guy driving it was giving me a very nasty look, but wouldn't get out until I walked away, what a Deutsche Bag!!!!

Why would he give you a nasty look?

I was driving an 80s oil cooled sports car:eek: and he was smug
I just smiled and went inside the lab, and smiled again when he walked in:D
It wasa kind of weird as when most people pull next to me while I'm driving the 911, they smile & wave.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1187204944.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1187205185.jpg

>>>that was using every trick I had learnt over years of driving dealership cars with the fuel lights on!<<<

Now that's funny. :D

But where are you finding a 56MPG average with a Prius? The magazine tests all seem to report real world mileage in the high 30's / low 40's. Obviously, the mileage will be fantastic if you do mainly city driving on electric, otherwise it's just another small gasoline powered car ruining the environment ;)

Hell, I can 'average' 50MPG or more in my TDI if I drive it gingerly, but that's not a true indication of the real world mileage - more like 42MPG in my case.

It's why I said UK gallons Curt, think they are about 1.2 US gallons which works out about 42mpg US? I can definitely get more out of this thing with a bit more practice though and not lose much speed. It is the acceleration that kills mpg and it's silly quiet on the road, so you are regularly going lots faster than you think you are in it. I just need to practise a bit more - more midnight drives.

I am lending it to the wife to take the kids and mother in law on a family visit down the country on Friday, 140 miles or so. No way will that lady get 56mpg out of this, but will be interesting to see what she makes of it. I reckon worst case scenario the Prius would save me £1025 ($2050) a year in tax and fuel (don't forget almost $9 a gallon of diesel here), so could well be worth giving up the Volvo (Euro 4 V50 TDi). I am enjoying trying out the technology whatever about the pisstaking - water off a duck's back.

I am going to try the incredibly unattractive but spacious Golf Sportline estate next week, 140bhp DSG, and the Golf Match 5 speed. Hard to find a modern TDi without a 6-speed gearbox, much better fun with a 5 speed as more grunt in third and fourth. Lightweight Match 5dr and sports suspension on 16s could be the way to go. I just want to give less money to the Government every month!

"I am going to try the incredibly unattractive but spacious Golf Sportline estate next week, 140bhp DSG, and the Golf Match 5 speed."

John,

I guess that's what we would call a Jetta (Bora) wagon here in NA.
I can't help but envy the idea of that car with the DSG, but certainly wouldn't want to pay your prices for fuel every day.
The engine /transmission options you have are unheard of on this side of the pond.

Les

LOL, that must be a woman thing - coasting is verboten. Either you are on the gas or on the brake.

Real world is around high-40s in city, driving "normally". Even my leadfoot wife usually gets around that. On freeway, 50s is normal. On a suburban or freeway commute, I might get 56, but not on the all-city and somewhat hilly route that Madam Leadfoot drives. To get high-30s, you usually need quite adverse circumstances (short trips with cold engine in cold weather, or lots of hills). To get 60s and higher, as some do, you need an near-optimal route and a very economical driving style.

"Mainly city driving on electric" is not possible. The traction battery is small and gives only a couple miles range, then the gas motor kicks in. Plus the gas motor kicks in if you do more than lightly press the throttle pedal or if you exceed 25 or 30 mph (don't recall exactly).

Go back in the thread a bit, I think I posted a description of how the Prius works. Basically, think of it as a very aerodynamic car with low-rolling resistance tires, powered by a gas engine much smaller than a car of its size and class would usually have. Then imagine that you shut the gas motor off every time you take your foot off the throttle pedal (stoplights, coasting, etc) rather than letting it idle. That is basically 90% of how the Prius gets its MPG. For the last 10%, imagine that for short distances at low speed you can switch on an electric motor. Oh, and the drivetrain uses a sort of continuously variable transmission.

Toyota is working on a next-gen Prius that will have a larger traction battery, probably using lithium-ion, which can be plugged in to recharge overnight or when parked at work. That will allow you to make modest trips (maybe 20 miles) on battery power, with the gas engine kicking in for more acceleration or when the battery is mostly drained. Recharging from a wall socket will of course consume energy, in the US much of that will be coal-generated, so not free and not non-polluting, but not from Middle East oil anyway. There are prototypes running around Japan and the US. But I think it will be a couple more years before this is in production. My guess is that one concern is the safety of such a large lithium ion battery. Look at all the recent recalls of cellphone and laptop lithium ion batteries. Another issue may be the longevity of a battery that is put through a full discharge cycle daily. The current Prius keeps its battery state of charge within a narrow range, which is why the battery can be warranteed for such a long period.

It is a very interesting car with a lot of technology. Not for everyone, but we like it a lot.

I have not checked the 'miles-per-gallon' on a car I have owned since the
1970's. Younger, curious and other people would ask then so...??

I purchase a vehicle because I like its style/design/function, etc. Perhaps if I owned a fleet of vehicles (IE: business) I would reconsider. For personal use, I don't give a flip about mileage, I drive what I want to drive.

And as for saving the environment, consider this: If someone tomorrow, invented a new fuel that in (let's say for arguments sake) 5 years, would economically replace oil ...what do you think all the oil producing countries would do? Well, the price would magically DROP LIKE A ROCK and we would see oil at prices that would compete with that NEW competition or, more than likely, beat it. (Think they will just roll over on their cash cow?)

I hope it happens, but I'm not holding my breath.

Drive what YOU want and let the next guy/gal do the same.

Amazingly worthless thread (the bickering) for a car enthusiasts site!

I don't see anything worthless in discussing ownership of a Prius on a forum for supposed car enthusiasts. I just said that in my situation, owning a Prius could save me a minimum $2000 a year cash in my pocket over an already economical low-emission diesel, far from worthless. The guys who want to shoot the technology down, based on zero experience other than seeing a guy parking a Prius one day, well that's their lookout.

I couldn't tell you what mpg my 911s do, or what the 4runners or Landcruiser diesels I run do to the gallon either, but mpg is what a Prius is all about and whether it is as good as they say is of interest to many of us. Especially guys like myself paying $9 per gallon of diesel!

Sorry, I didn't make myself clear.

I have no problem with the 'rational' car discussions. What I find most irritating is; someone starts a coherent/valid thread for discussion and soon it's swerving into some political or petty 'bickering' rant!