Tabs isolated view of the World. - Page 4

Mule · 08-07-2007, 12:13 PM

Quit changing the subject Shaun. Support your first numbirs, if you can.

Shaun @ Tru6 · 08-07-2007, 12:26 PM

Point blank you aren't worth it. You've been running around OT for 3 weeks now taking cheap, b!tchy shots on serious threads, never offering anything constructive, just shouting down people with mean-spirited banter that is tiring at best.

Do your own homework. You won't believe anything I post from any source and I just don't want to feed the troll anymore. You can take a cue from FOG.

Thanks for posting the requisite "told you so" in advance.

FOG · 08-07-2007, 12:27 PM

Tabs,

I know they think they are planning on their own support. As one who was dragged kicking and screaming into a CSS tour/deployment plus working the air side I think they are being unrealistic. They like to get the straight operator types, both air and ground. Few if any I’ve met realize how deep the overall support is from all the assets. This is especially true

Not sure what you mean by “It only took 19 Jihadists to NEARLY bring the house of cards down on 911”, in context to either this thread on in general.

S/F, FOG

tabs · 08-07-2007, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shaun 84 Targa

Point blank you aren't worth it. You've been running around OT for 3 weeks now taking cheap, b!tchy shots on serious threads, never offering anything constructive, just shouting down people with mean-spirited banter that is tiring at best.

Hey Shaun don't be so hard on MRM....

Shaun @ Tru6 · 08-07-2007, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FOG

Shaun,

I’d take a look at that 300k number, it’s very light for what you propose. Look at force ratios of support to those out front. The helos are wearing out very fast as is the F/A-18 A-D plus lots of ground equipment.

Expanding via draft requires training, where, who does the training, etc. Lots of shortfalls in this area. Shortfalls in advanced training areas also.

You are never going to “seal” the border, reduce the flow substantially. This would have been much more effective initially but the that is history not futurity.

There are lots of problems with trying to weed out insurgents, not the least of which is we are not locals. Even bringing Persh from up North on down has limitations. Look at what is finally being allowed to happen in Anbar. Allowing the local units to work with the locals. One of the biggest problems is that every CWO-Maj. is running his small slice and doing accomplishing things in different ways (think SF writ large w/conventional units co-located). This does not translate well in hard metric numbers and thus not briefed well out of Anbar and even more mis-understood (mis-represented (deliberately or not) by the media.

I wonder why most people do not address the length of most insurgencies? The best guess in 03 from friend on Cent staffs was 8-12 years before the invasion predicated on phasing more units in and holding for a few years with more than we’ve had in at any time. Would have been cheaper in the long run . Unfortunately it would be costlier still to leave.

Just a Marine since 1980. Left end of 1999 and brought back as a regular AD Sep. 01. Overseas quite a bit and currently active duty w/some reserve units in Ft. Worth area waiting a medical retirement/disability.

S/F, FOG

interesting stuff and have to agree on many points, especially 100% sealing the border. But you can slow to a trickle or make it difficult enough for them to just give up. Like cutting off a fuel supply route in a conventional war, I think cutting off fresh talent which brings with it morale, as well as munitions would make a real difference.

What are your thoughts on a realistic plan for the next year, 2 years, 10 years?

If a silver bullet existed, what would it look like?

BTW, what should the media be reporting? Curious there.

Thanks

Shaun

Seahawk · 08-07-2007, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FOG

Tabs,

I know they think they are planning on their own support. As one who was dragged kicking and screaming into a CSS tour/deployment plus working the air side I think they are being unrealistic.
S/F, FOG

Did you work Scan Eagle?

Shaun @ Tru6 · 08-07-2007, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tabs

Hey Shaun don't be so hard on MRM....

LOL! MRM is breath of fresh air around here.

tabs · 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FOG

Tabs,

Not sure what you mean by “It only took 19 Jihadists to NEARLY bring the house of cards down on 911”, in context to either this thread on in general.

S/F, FOG

The global economy runs on LIQUIDITY. If liquidity drys up, down comes the global economy. Thats why the Fed reduced the overnight lending rate to 1% to keep the system liquid. Thats why we sent 80B to Euro Banks during 911 week, thats why GM dropped the interest rate to 0% financing to keep the money flowing, people buying. Thats also part of the reason why they closed the Financial Markets for a week after 911, to let things cool off. Get it?

Brokerage Houses/Banks make Markets in Certain Stocks. That means they buy them when there is an inbalance of sellers to buyers to support that stocks price level. If the system is swamped with sellers and no buyers, sooner or later the Brokerss/Banks run outa cash to support stock price levels and they can go into free fall after the liquidity drys up. Mutual Fund redemptions, Bank Account withdrawls etc are all part of the same thing.

Now what do U think will happen if another "Big Event" happens...that run on liquidity terrifys them.

Mule · 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shaun 84 Targa

Point blank you aren't worth it. You've been running around OT for 3 weeks now taking cheap, b!tchy shots on serious threads, never offering anything constructive, just shouting down people with mean-spirited banter that is tiring at best.

Do your own homework. You won't believe anything I post from any source and I just don't want to feed the troll anymore. You can take a cue from FOG.

Thanks for posting the requisite "told you so" in advance.

The only source you've referenced so far is your own imagination. The truth shall sat you free, but first it will p!ss you off.

FOG · 08-07-2007, 12:47 PM

Shaun,

I have to think about answering in more depth in a public forum. There are both security issues and UCMJ issues about criticizing in a public forum. You are right that you can cut down the flow that is really not the issue. There were enough armaments in country already, including enough to make shaped charges w/liners. Look up the size of the storage area next to Al Asad airbase as an example.

I think the media should be reporting accurately. They all want the 5-10 minute story and for all their “worldliness” they miss far more of the nuances than 95% of the Troops (meaning Marines, Soldiers, Sailors and airmen) on the ground. If you ever get a chance have a drink with those who have done CAG or similar tours. The stories are eerily similar in that the media types don’t get their idea of what is going on, is confused what doesn’t want to show and leaves. The media has the same problem as the DoD and DoS, the media needs imbeds for the expertise to have a clue on what is reported but doesn’t want them to become too friendly with the military while the DoD and DoS have area experts who live there. The difference is that most of the DoD types that are not FAOs work hard at understanding something that is foreign to them…

SeaHawk,

Never operated UAVs. Just an occasional user and hopefully not an abuser. Great tools but lots of potential for things to go wrong, more than a few close calls on the intramural side of things.

Currently down at Ft. Worth and having issues w/ reserve USMC air, USAFR Vipers, and Lockheed plant flight safety in conjunction with the base. So far it is USMC and Lockheed on one side and USN trying to throw out OPNAV, etc. for some form of USAF stuffs. Safety issues for all concerned.

S/F, FOG

tabs · 08-07-2007, 12:50 PM

Lets say ole Al Qaeda is successfull with another "Big Event" in the USA and somewhere else in the world at the same time...lets say LA and Toyko...Whoa unto whoever gave them access to that means of creating carnage...The US and West in general won't be Mr Nice Guy like we are now, we are gona hurt somebody real bad.

If U think this is just my wild eyed ranting and raving, U better guess again. This is exactly what the former Deputy Secratary of State for Policy said....one Mr Paul Krasner currently residing at Stanford U. as a Poli Sci Prof.

FOG · 08-07-2007, 12:59 PM

Tabs,

I have a basic understanding of those basics, though by no means a Wall street guru. My perception that a lot that was caused by knee jerk reaction from both media and Wall street types.

Last Christmas I attended a dinner with some Wall street types and a similar discussion came about. My question was what real (vice psychological) damage was done and how much was over people (media, talking heads, etc.) causing a panic? I can see their point that perception is reality but I only buy that for a little bit.

Truly looking for another opinion.

As far as hitting back look at 911. If the President was ready to play defense and be protected where would he go in the Florida Pan handle region? Someplace with lots of snake eaters and F-15s. If ready to play offense then????? I wonder how close we came to playing offense that day if we’ll ever really know.

S/F, FOG

Seahawk · 08-07-2007, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FOG

SeaHawk,

Never operated UAVs. Just an occasional user and hopefully not an abuser. Great tools but lots of potential for things to go wrong, more than a few close calls on the intramural side of things.

Currently down at Ft. Worth and having issues w/ reserve USMC air, USAFR Vipers, and Lockheed plant flight safety in conjunction with the base. So far it is USMC and Lockheed on one side and USN trying to throw out OPNAV, etc. for some form of USAF stuffs. Safety issues for all concerned.

S/F, FOG

Interesting. I'll PM you. I don't see that side of the safety issues. I'm headed back to 29 Palms next week to work with the Marines on their first deployment of Shadow. All is going well. I'll see them in theater in October.

FOG · 08-07-2007, 01:11 PM

SeaHawk,

No big deal. Issues w/arresting gear rigging. The Vipers use departure end, and Hornets use approach end. The requirement at Naval airfield is both or airfield is considered FOD’d, even helo bases (Futenma for example). Problem is rigging and getting it accidently tripped with a shortage of personnel to re-rig. The base and the Viper unit want just the departure end so no tripping and Vipers can land before the gear.

The Hornets want both as the runway switches as does the Lockheed plant. I have talking to their safety and Chief test pilot, though they are generally flying heavier block 60 jets.. They want both so no tailwind landings to hit the in place gear (12-18 KTAS tailwind component with a partially broken jet and live ord is not ideal).

The other issue is the BASH that the TANG and USAFR want. We’re refusing to sign as it is not in accordance w/any Naval Avation program.

S/F, FOG

PS. Lockheed as a Viper demonstrator that guys really want a crack at. Two seat A model, other wise stripped and a -132 motor. Can we say fun!!!

tabs · 08-07-2007, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FOG

Tabs,

I My perception that a lot that was caused by knee jerk reaction from both media and Wall street types.

Last Christmas I attended a dinner with some Wall street types and a similar discussion came about. My question was what real (vice psychological) damage was done and how much was over people (media, talking heads, etc.) causing a panic? I can see their point that perception is reality but I only buy that for a little bit.

S/F, FOG

It was over lunch during 911 week that it was explained to me about how a run on Stocks could dry liquidity up. The explainer operates on the same plain of expertise as Allan Greenspan and is also connected to the RNC.

FOG · 08-07-2007, 01:44 PM

Tabs,

These guys were very full of themselves, bragging about how they would buy 3-5 (100K+) new cars at a time and drive them for a few months to decide which one they really wanted to keep, then selling the others at a loss as their time was worth more than the depreciation. I kind of got the impression that they were trying to impress with CDI factor. Not impressed.

They said they were Republican, but then what does that mean?

I understand the liquidity, etc. My point is what would have happened if we would have taken the approach that while they hurt us it was by no means serious. Something along the lines of Londoners after their bombs went off. Not lead to a crisis in confidence?

My personal opinion is that the average American responded better than the media and talking heads who were all talking doom and gloom. I have some dealing w/media and New Yorkers (city types) and came away with the impression that they thought the world revolved around them while espousing a global view that didn’t add up in my pea brain. The result was if it hurt NYC then it was catastrophic for the U.S.

I could be missing the mark also. Finance is not my area of expertise.

S/F, FOG

tabs · 08-07-2007, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FOG

Tabs,

These guys were very full of themselves, bragging about how they would buy 3-5 (100K+) new cars at a time and drive them for a few months to decide which one they really wanted to keep, then selling the others at a loss as their time was worth more than the depreciation. I kind of got the impression that they were trying to impress with CDI factor. Not impressed.

They said they were Republican, but then what does that mean?

.

I could be missing the mark also. Finance is not my area of expertise.

S/F, FOG

Yeah thats all well and good, but Mother is a friend of the former Fed Chief.

Mule · 08-08-2007, 05:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shaun 84 Targa

Point blank you aren't worth it. You've been running around OT for 3 weeks now taking cheap, b!tchy shots on serious threads, never offering anything constructive, just shouting down people with mean-spirited banter that is tiring at best.

Do your own homework. You won't believe anything I post from any source and I just don't want to feed the troll anymore. You can take a cue from FOG.

Thanks for posting the requisite "told you so" in advance.

Shaun, according to your FACTS, yesterday, we should have motivated about 32,000 more peace lovers to take up arms for the religion of peace. Allah smackbar.

MRM · 08-08-2007, 05:39 AM

Tabs, I can't believe you would say that about me. You know I've been on this board for years, not weeks.

tabs · 08-08-2007, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MRM

Tabs, I can't believe you would say that about me. You know I've been on this board for years, not weeks.

What did I say about you on this Thread, I didn't say a word, Shaun said it. I even suggested that Shaun was being a bit hard on you, so I am even sympathetic towards your plight.