We know the story:
Rather and his team of Kerry supporters at 60 Minutes had the story of a lifetime, one that could possibly even influence the election. Long-lost documents that would prove Bush's service to be less-than-stellar. The source was Bill Burkett, who said he received the documents from a Guardsman named George Conn. Then he admitted he lied about that. Then he said he got the documents from a woman named Lucy Ramirez. Of course, she has never been identified. Where are the original documents. Oh, Burkett claims he burned the originals after faxing them to CBS.

The morning after the broadcast, the documents were debunked by bloggers LGF and Powerline. I watched it develop in real time. It was exciting stuff, bloggers knocking 60 Minutes down.

Dan Rather denied the obvious for too long, before CBS forced him to admit the truth. Rather became a liability to CBS and they through him to the curb like the has-been he had become.

End of story.

Oh yea, then he tried to get some attention by filing a frivolous lawsuit.

The Abu Graib story had NOTHING to do with Rather's National Guard story. And the Bushies didn't have to lift a finger to discredit Rather. I think Drudge and the bloggers started it, but it was a fact that Rather went ahead with a story before he could verify his docs because he wanted it out before the election. He was his own worst enemy. And I think the Bushies followed the old Napoleonic adage, "Never interfere when your enemy is committing suicide." To think the CBS brass would have gone along with ANY such request from the WH is laughable. That's about as silly as when the Chinese embassy asked the National Press Club to uninvite the Dalai Lama. The NPC just publicized it more.

Regarding your first point - I never suggested that it did. But I think it's possible to draw an inference from the way the military pressured the media in the Abu Graib case from the way they pressured CBS on the National Guard story. I'm amazed that you have trouble with that inference.

On your second point, you have more faith in the independance of the media than I do. They US media has been incredibly far up the administration's bum during the Bush administration. That is pretty obvious to anyone who has been in the US in the past seven years and picked up a paper or turned on a television. Stephen Colbert nailed THIS issue pretty well in his Press Club address.

In any case we will see where this lawsuit goes. Rather is not my favourite guy - but he is not stupid. I think he knows exactly what he's doing. You heard of Occams Razor? You hear hoofbeats: do you think "horses!" or do you think "zebras!"?

Funny you should mention Occam's Razor.

Your theory: Karl Rove (or name your boogeyman from the White House here) types up a fake memo using Microsoft Word and through some back channels, leaks it to CBS News, they run the story before realizing that the documents are fakes, and then Rove instructs some bloggers to reveal the deception. Big conspiracy. Stories are fabricated where the fake sources reveal their sources, are caught in lies, then tell more lies about how they didn't really get the documents from Karl Rove, and nobody ever spills the beans.

Or:
In their zeal to take down Bush, CBS News accepts phoney documents as legitimate, their zeal overwhelms integrity and they don't even notice the superscripts. Doesn't matter, fake but accurate. The story is broadcast, CBS publishes the fax the next morning on their website. Anybody paying attention notices the superscript. Type it up in Word, compare, exact match. Voila, story debunked, Rather becomes a joke. Fired as an incompetent old fool.

I will bet you $5000 that Rather will not prove in a court of law that the Bush camp had anything to do with creating the fake document.

I'm in. We'll make it ten.

But I have to address this one:

"But I doubt that will happen, as, just maybe, people who identify themselves as liberal are more willing to take lower paying jobs for the good of society rather than seeking personal financial gain."

Stevepaa that is the most ridiculous quote I've ever heard come from you. Only liberals make sacrifices for the good of society? Would that include our armed forces? Or do you not consider their contributions to be sacrifices? Or maybe you beleive they're overwhelmingly liberal?

Or liberal dingbats who make tens of millions a year to read news. Or mega million dollar corporations with zillionaire executives who make liberal news (isn't the NYT running about $3.3B per year now?- having just decided to charge for their website?)

And come to think of it- if those folks at NPR could find a way to make those sacrifices the rest of the taxpayers wouldn't have to fund them, would we?

I'd love to see you prove that ridiculous assertion.

I just can't believe anyone really believes the media has been kind to Bush. Just unreal. I don't even think Fox has been real easy on him. Their WH folks usually ask the toughest questions at press conferences, as opposed to Helen Thomas's speechifying "questions". The two scenarios Rearden mentions, if either is remotely true, speak volumes about CBS and/or Rather. Of course, Bush, the guy who's so dumb, he can barely tie his own shoes, is the world's all time champion conspirator, making airplanes disappear, buildings collapse and totally co-opting the liberal media. I guess there's no end to his masterful playing all of us. Only the Bush haters around here seem to be smart enough to figure it all out.

Cheney did virtually this exact scenario with The New York Times and the Sunday morning talk shows. Leaked a false story to the Times, then discredited it on the talk shows. So yes, it's more likely that Rove created the fake memo.

I don't believe Cheney did that, but I wish he had. The onus is on the news org. to vett the story before they run with it. Just because Cheney said it, doesn't make it true, even if Cheney was speaking to the best of his knowledge at the time. News orgs. certainly don't believe everything gov't. officials tell them.

You tend to believe a lot of things that are not true. Cheney admitted it on MTP.

What story are you referring to?

I just reread this post. How does anything Cheney said on tv make it more likely that Rove passed a forged document to CBS? I don't see the relationship at all. But as long as people like you believe such crazy stuff, I guess Rove should have done that stuff anyway, as he'd always be suspected of it AND it would put a lot of egg on the faces of news orgs. that didn't do their homework. A win-win.

That's the trouble with this country Rick, critical thought is dead.

Cheney leaks incorrect information to the NYT. NYT prints it. Cheney goes on TV pointing out that the NYT article is false.

Someone creates a false document and gives it to Rather. Rather runs with it. The Admin goes on TV pointing out that the document is false.

if you can't see the similarity between the two, no one can help you.

Please enlighten us as to what you know for a concrete fact about Cheney passing something onto the NYT that he later claimed to be false. Not saying he didn't do it, but I don't remeber this one. And critical thought is not dead at all, except perhaps in some left-wing news orgs. who'd rather run with a story they wish and believe is true rather than find it out for sure. If I never used critical thinking, I'd believe your citing Cheney's example as proof that Rove did the same to CBS. No way, Jose.

jesus f***ing christ, are you that intellectually bankrupt? go do a search on it so you can believe it yourself, because anything I post here is just going to be met with a big "nah ahhhh." Man this is so f***ing stupid.

Lighten up, Francis. Googling "Cheney" and "NYT" is a bit tedious. Maybe you can be less specific in your accusations and point me in the general direction or just answer Rearden's question and we'll hijack this thread to hammering Cheney some more, since there's no way Dan Rather and CBS could have ever been too lazy in vetting their own Bush-hating story.

Google gets me a bunch of plame stuff. Maybe you could hint at what topic it was about?

Tip: Try removing quotes from your search to get more results.

Your search - "cheney leaked to the new york times" - did not match any documents.

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This 'Cheney leaked to the NYT' story must be instantly familiar within the BDS canon, but for the rest of us, we don't know what you're talking about. You'll have to be more explicit.

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